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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:05 (Ref:1002961)   #1
bulldogspirit
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Williams & Toyota DQ'd

BBC Sport reports Williams & Toyota disqualified from Canadian GP for illegal cooling ducts. More details soon.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:11 (Ref:1002967)   #2
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???? wtf?
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:12 (Ref:1002968)   #3
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They had illegal brake ducts or something, just read it over on autosport.com
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:15 (Ref:1002969)   #4
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So Glock gets 2 points on his debut?

Will Toyota or Williams appeal?

Last edited by esorniloc; 13 Jun 2004 at 22:16.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:17 (Ref:1002970)   #5
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Hazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridHazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridHazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Yep, BBC reports a problem with the teams brake ducts on post race inspection - no specifics.

The amended result is...

1. M Schumacher
2. R Barrichello
3. J Button
4. G Fisichella
5. K Raikonnen
6. D Coulthard
7. T Glock
8. N Heidfeld

F1Racing are reporting the result as though Panis still scores, though BBC says Glock finishes 7th, which doesn't make sense

Last edited by Hazard; 13 Jun 2004 at 22:18.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:20 (Ref:1002972)   #6
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Katieknight1984 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
*News Flash* Williams and Toyota Disqualified!!!

Its understood that both the Williams of Ralf Schumacher and Juan Pablo Montoya,and the Toyota's of Olivier Panis and Cristiano Da Matta have been excluded from the results of the Canadian GP.

Its understood that after the race it was discovered that the brake ducts on the Williams and Toyota's were found not to comply with the regualtions.
Its not known at this stage wheather either team will appeal.

With that it alters the results with barrichello moving from 3rd to 2nd and button get another 3rd place after originally finishing 4th,fisi from 6th to 4th,kimi from 7th to 5th,dc from 9th to 6th,glock from 11th to 7th,heidfeld from 12th to 8th,klien from 13th to 9th and baumgartner from 14th to 10th.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:22 (Ref:1002974)   #7
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/3803709.stm

Sounds like no appeal likely from Williams.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:27 (Ref:1002975)   #8
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Dani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
although if they were illegal .they must be penalised .... it's shame really ..
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:27 (Ref:1002976)   #9
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Damon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Bloody hell! That's the most exciting F1 related event of the weekend.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:28 (Ref:1002977)   #10
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Hazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridHazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridHazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The Williams statement seems fishy to me. Now we're awarded with another Ferrari 1-2.

I suppose it actually makes the championship closer, now Michael only has a 16 point lead instead of 18 - and I suppose Button not Ralf is the only threat

Last edited by Hazard; 13 Jun 2004 at 22:29.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:31 (Ref:1002978)   #11
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Damon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Unfortunately you've been beaten to it! I feel a merge coming on...
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:45 (Ref:1002984)   #12
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Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Rules infringed, they're disqualified, they've accepted it.

No big worries - and attention can move on to Indianapolis now.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 23:10 (Ref:1002996)   #13
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Rennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Seems odd to have a rule that limits airflow to just cool something!
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 23:19 (Ref:1003003)   #14
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Spudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I really am not amused. Surely the teams should be able to run what ever cooling they like. Increased cooling lowers performance surely!

But rules are rules I guess.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 23:27 (Ref:1003007)   #15
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gttouring should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
i would like to see the rules pertaining towards coolant or brake ducting sizes...
what an odd thing to break the rules on, and what a wierd thing they didn't catch postqualifying or in parc ferme, or something...if you are going to cheat they should have put turbos on the V10 and soked the field and get DQ'd for something really big
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 23:42 (Ref:1003013)   #16
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally posted by Spudgun
I really am not amused. Surely the teams should be able to run what ever cooling they like. Increased cooling lowers performance surely!

But rules are rules I guess.
no, increased cooling would mean that the drivers wouldn't have to watch their brakes as much so could brake harder in the race.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 23:43 (Ref:1003014)   #17
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Originally posted by Spudgun
I really am not amused. Surely the teams should be able to run what ever cooling they like. Increased cooling lowers performance surely!

But rules are rules I guess.
In therory by having larger intakes it creates faster cooling therefor allowing the driver to go deeper when braking.As I said in theroy but when it comes to the crunch it depends how big the drivers cahoonas are as to whether he will us this advantage.
Not a very good start for young Sam now is it.

The Grumpy1

P.S.Doh beaten to it.

Last edited by grumpy1; 13 Jun 2004 at 23:45.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 23:58 (Ref:1003019)   #18
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Gt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I'm quite surprised that any top teams would flout the rules, but on a circuit as tough as Montreal on the brakes, such illegal modifications would play quite a significant difference in the race.

Unfortunately, punishments have to be met out..but i do feel sorry for Ralf

It's strange that coincidentally, 2 works supported teams were found to breach the rules in the same way on the same race.
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Old 14 Jun 2004, 00:02 (Ref:1003020)   #19
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Spudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
p and grumpy1,

I do see your point, and it is a very fair one.
However, if the teams are allowed to have fancy electronics on engines and such, for example rev limiters and traction control to prevent potential problems, reliabiltity and binabilty why can't they cool the brakes as they see fit?

After all, these days are the last of the late brakers. If everyone is always looking after their brakes, passing gets difficult and that is a big problem at the mo.

The tyres are so good now you need good brakes.

15-20 years ago the whole car had to be looked after. Why now just the brakes?

If they want to curb brakes, make steel discs mandatory.

Sorry, but I agree to disagree here. Stupid rule.
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Old 14 Jun 2004, 00:20 (Ref:1003027)   #20
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I never said it was a good rule.There have to be limitations on the whole thing.Carbon Fibre brakes are the natural progression to where these cars are at performance wise.The old steel rotors would melt if subjected to the cars of today.
The rule on the diamentions is the same for all teams so it is only natural that if you bend the rule your penilised.It would be the same if they ran a larger front wing.Illegal advantage same result.

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Old 14 Jun 2004, 01:27 (Ref:1003042)   #21
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Some red faces for Gasgoine and Michaels for sure. Tough luck, but I guess that brings my boy up to 4th!
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Old 14 Jun 2004, 01:50 (Ref:1003048)   #22
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Firstly, I wonder if those sympathetic to Williams here would be the same had it been Michael & Rubins cars caught with an illegal modification? I think not.

Anyway, I agree it does sound like a silly rule, but there is no doubt more too it that we are aware. And if open break cooling was allowed, the other cars in the field may have been faster as well.

In short, do the crime, pay the fine.


I find it amazing that a team as profesional as Williams would be caught out by this, very weird. Someone's head needs to be served up.

And Toyota as well? If this is true someone should go back and check the F1-2003GA then, maybe its results can be challenged.
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Old 14 Jun 2004, 02:24 (Ref:1003063)   #23
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Originally posted by Wrex
Firstly, I wonder if those sympathetic to Williams here would be the same had it been Michael & Rubins cars caught with an illegal modification? I think not.

Anyway, I agree it does sound like a silly rule, but there is no doubt more too it that we are aware. And if open break cooling was allowed, the other cars in the field may have been faster as well.

In short, do the crime, pay the fine.


I find it amazing that a team as profesional as Williams would be caught out by this, very weird. Someone's head needs to be served up.

And Toyota as well? If this is true someone should go back and check the F1-2003GA then, maybe its results can be challenged.
Point 1. Don't start me Wrex.Most should know my veiw on that.
Point 2. Its the same for all so tough.
Point 3. Agreed break the rules cop it sweat.
Point 4. What are you suggesting Wrex Ferrari broke the rules?

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Old 14 Jun 2004, 02:34 (Ref:1003067)   #24
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Old 14 Jun 2004, 02:39 (Ref:1003071)   #25
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fast95pony should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
This cooling infraction makes me hot under the collar.I lost a point in the competition !!
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