ALMS will seize to exist in this format.

[awegrzyn]

It was about 3 years ago I posted here about the state of ALMS and where it was going. The writing was on the wall then right before the economy was about to cave in. After my post about 4 people contacted me and some threatened me with litigation for my comments.

I was very correct then. ALMS ran the way it's ran will stop to exist. The fundamental problem is not ALMS, but economy in the West. US is in a decline for a long time and what you see across all kinds of racing is slow cost cutting measures that started in 2002.

There is only one way to save sports car racing in US: create cheap standard form of racing with only one championship. Its very hard for people to understand why DPs are so successful. They are not stealing teams away from ALMS. Teams are leaving, because they can not afford to race against factory machines. Factory machines that are new every year. They are new every year not because of inovation, but because of constant rule changes as if no one knew what they are doing. It's like a train going into the wall. The same very rule changes kill competition, because you have cars running with different rules applied to them in the same race. When you go to an ALMS race you feel as if each car was in it's own class (look Lime Rock 2009, I went there for nothing almost). One big mess.

You guys have to step back and look at sports cars racing from a bigger perspective. You can not look at DPs and ALMS and say I don't like this or I don't like that. Some kind of general restructuring will be forced upon ALMS I can reassure you. "Cheaper" series with cheaper racing format will survive.

I'm sure you will disagree again, but I'm patient. I'll wait another few years before I'll post here when the consolidation in sports car racing happens.

[Purist]

There hasn't been a fundamental shift in prototypes since 1999, and aside from GT1 being dropped, we've had what are now GT1 and GT2 since 1994. If that isn't as stable as it gets, I don't know what is, because it's never existed.

Grand-Am won't stay cheap; it isn't cheap now. The small teams from DP are gone. And even AJR, Bell, and Doran Lista have fallen by the wayside. DPs are successful in numbers in relative terms, but their numbers are down by a third or even slightly more than that from their peak.

It's not a simple matter of liking or following a party line. ALMS appeals to me because they have attractive, innovative, fast sportscars. GA has put on some races that I have enjoyed, but that series on the whole simply doesn't get my juices going or capture me in any way like what the ALMS does. If you are right, and we're left with just GA, or something like it, with much more restrictive rules, far less attractive cars, and other DP/GA GT hallmarks, I may just slowly slip out of following sportscar racing because my heart may just not be in it anymore like it is now.

I don't want to see privateers shut out, but proivateers alone will NOT provide great sportscar racing. Take a look back at what the old LMP675/LMP2 class was like. Even the MG/Lolas were often fragile, and that led to a rather pathetic last-man-standing situation at many races in that class. And remember, manufacturers don't just bring factory teams, but they provide an awful lot of customer cars as well.

[cmk]

Everything will cease to exist in its current format. Including the universe itself. Cost cutting important? What crazy, revolutionary ideas you have.

Your suggestion that factories only produce tubs because of rule adjustments is so patently rubbish I can't believe I am responding to it. PS: Audi raced 100 series R10 tubs in 2008 sometimes.

No evidence of these huge schisms you speak of within classes either. There's the gentleman-driven privateer vs. factory dichotomy in each class, of course, but the Lola and Acura P2 cars and the Ferrari, BMW, Ford and Porsche chassis all looked well-matched in GT2. What gives?

[johntt]

Originally Posted by cmk

Everything will cease to exist in its current format. Including the universe itself. Cost cutting important? What crazy, revolutionary ideas you have.

Your suggestion that factories only produce tubs because of rule adjustments is so patently rubbish I can't believe I am responding to it. PS: Audi raced 100 series R10 tubs in 2008 sometimes.

No evidence of these huge schisms you speak of within classes either. There's the gentleman-driven privateer vs. factory dichotomy in each class, of course, but the Lola and Acura P2 cars and the Ferrari, BMW, Ford and Porsche chassis all looked well-matched in GT2. What gives?

Agree, until the economy tanked the ALMS was doing very well.

To the OP:

Car numbers will always be higher in Grand-Am because cheap crap will always outsell quality.

e.g. McDonald's serves millions of meals every day but a top gourmet restaurant will serve a fraction of the number of meals but they will be of amazing quality. The difference is, the ALMS is a gourmet restaurant with lots of people turning up , Grand-Am is a McDonald's with poor attendance

If you were at Lime Rock and felt that you were there for nothing, then you were clearly not paying attention. There was a great battle between the P1 Acuras for the win, a battle between the P2 Acura and the Dyson Lolas (the usual P2 battle of attrition, but i'm used to that from LM), and a great fight throughout the GT2 class.

As of Mid-Ohio we'll have the new GT2 Corvettes making what is the best GT2 class in the world even better (all they need now is some Astons ) and Cytosport will be running a Porsche RS Spyder.

[MJ_N_09]

I do get sick of these "gloom and doom" posts. I really do.

[thebear]

Originally Posted by awegrzyn

There is only one way to save sports car racing in US: create cheap standard form of racing with only one championship. Its very hard for people to understand why DPs are so successful. They are not stealing teams away from ALMS. Teams are leaving, because they can not afford to race against factory machines.

One could of course relate that to NA$CAR on road courses but that certainly isn't a `low cost' alternative, is it? .

[Jonerz]

Fail thread? He comes in making vague generalizations, random objective observations, and comments "reassuring general restructuring" in the ALMS.

Chris

[zac510]

If there's one thing Americans aren't good at it's confirming to low cost and a single championship. That would definitely be revolutionary!

(and to our American friends - I mean this comment in a nice, observational-type way!)

[mountainstar]

I know a few guys in Grand Am and I'm told there could be some surprises coming with teams being pulled out and everything put up for sale. I don't think Grand Am is any stronger than the ALMS.

The economy affected everyone in a big way. ALL manufacturers did a check up and assessment as to their expenditures. It's tough for everyone.

Personally I think the ALMS is the best way forward with it's formula. Grand Am doesn't excite and without Nascar paying the bills and bending sponsors over a barrel, it would not exist.

[Purist]

We already know Pontiac's days are numbered, and this is Lexus' last year as an engine supplier. So the last two championship teams will be looking for new powerplants.

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by thebear

One could of course relate that to NA$CAR on road courses but that certainly isn't a `low cost' alternative, is it? .

Also sounds like Indycar.

[Fogelhund]

For those who wish to see said thread, it is here.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...66#post1655666

Though most of the "facts" and "premise" were well off base.

[MJ_N_09]

I just stopped reading after he started flaming Americans, saying they are all blindfolded. I love people who drink the Anti-American Kool Aid that the BBC throws out. I really do.


LOL at the 1 star rating this thread got.

[awegrzyn]

3 years ago:
"I'm not surprised LMP2 looks the way it looks. LMP2 and GT1 are mismanaged. Mismanaged to a point where teams don't want to compete."

Yes, I was very much off base. Not one car in GT1 and zero racing in P2. I mean zero racing. Driving around a race track is not racing.

BTW I was not flaming Americans lol. The only think that flamed out was GT1 since my posts.

I'm probably the only fan here that started to follow this series from the beginning and went to almost all races. The series is great, but it peaked in 2001. It seems to me like that 2001 race in Mid Ohio was the top. Since then things went slowly downhill.

I'm not going to rant here what's wrong with racing in US as the problems are clear, but I know without an overall restructure we will only be forced to see how racing murders itself slowly.

[MJ_N_09]

Oh please, don't even try to backpeddle while acting like you're word is the gospel.

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by johntt

Agree, until the economy tanked the ALMS was doing very well.

To the OP:

Car numbers will always be higher in Grand-Am because cheap crap will always outsell quality.

e.g. McDonald's serves millions of meals every day but a top gourmet restaurant will serve a fraction of the number of meals but they will be of amazing quality. The difference is, the ALMS is a gourmet restaurant with lots of people turning up , Grand-Am is a McDonald's with poor attendance

If you were at Lime Rock and felt that you were there for nothing, then you were clearly not paying attention. There was a great battle between the P1 Acuras for the win, a battle between the P2 Acura and the Dyson Lolas (the usual P2 battle of attrition, but i'm used to that from LM), and a great fight throughout the GT2 class.

As of Mid-Ohio we'll have the new GT2 Corvettes making what is the best GT2 class in the world even better (all they need now is some Astons ) and Cytosport will be running a Porsche RS Spyder.

Amen bro. Not to mention that all these returning teams seem to be here for the remainder of the year, even into next year.


I like McDonalds..... Better than Burger king (total crap) at least.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by awegrzyn

blahblahblah

Holier than thou enough for you? And completely off-base. Most people here have followed the series since the very beginning. Don't pretend that watching a long time somehow validates ideas automatically, irrespective of their virtue.

MJ, don't bring the BBC into this, man! Pretty much the world's premier news agency, they are.

[fieldodreams79]

i just hope the evil empire buys all racing series and all tracks in the US to make one huge series where AMA, GA, ALMS, SCCA, IRL, CART, NHRA, IHRA, ARCA and USAC can race under the NASCAR banner and share the same weekend at one track to save money.
the only hope we've got to save motor racin' in the states.

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

I like McDonalds..... Better than Burger king (total crap) at least.

are you kiddin me?!
Chick-fil-a and the way, baby
eat mor chik-n

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by cmk

Holier than thou enough for you? And completely off-base. Most people here have followed the series since the very beginning. Don't pretend that watching a long time somehow validates ideas automatically, irrespective of their virtue.

MJ, don't bring the BBC into this, man! Pretty much the world's premier news agency, they are.

That may be true, but BBC has more than 1 channel. They have shows that always crack the "American" stereotype. Come on, there's only so much I can listen to before I get sick of it, and I'm not even from the South!!!

Back to your scheduled thread


P.S: Now I want Burger King after all I said about it.

[Breitling24]

Fast food, in any shape sucks: and BBC doesn't. Do you have any idea how many "American Classic" TV shows were BBC productions first? Thanks for playing.

Back to the topic: the ALMS will survive, without Earth shattering changes, oh false prophet.

[zac510]

All I want is a Waldorf Salad!

[MJ_N_09]

I will say that I do not like the fast food breakfasts. I prefer my local diners/restuarants.

[mountainstar]

I watch BBC America from time to time and it is a left wing radical organization that hates America.

Chick-Fil-A is awesome.

And so is the ALMS.

[The Real DMN]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

is a left wing radical organization that hates America.

America is the Forth Reich.

lmao or rather lamo.

[MJ_N_09]

Oh damn...here comes another America vs Europe Flamefest....

I've seen enough of this on Youtube, espicially Topgear vids. BTW, Britons are BY FAR the worst when it comes to this. Do you guys like any other country besides England?