General Sportscar Chat thread

[Akrapovic]

I don't feel the timing of the radio matters because such actions can only be carried out in braking zones anyway. So the radio looks worse if you lay it over just before a braking zone, where as if it had been said on the exit of turn 2, then suddenly it looks better because the move isn't executed until later. So purely by lucky placement of the cars in a lap, the move can be seen as better or worse. So if it was an order to the driver then I don't believe that it matters what time it was given, and that there should be a heavy heavy penalty.

However if what Ullrich says is true, and that his radio is not connected to the driver, then it cannot possibly be determined that this is an order, and it is just unlucky that it was caught on a radio and TV made it look like it was an order. But even if it wasn't an order, the move must've then been Timos own decision, and the disqualification should stand.

Timing is far less important than if his radio does broadcast to the drivers. And even if Ullrich is completely innocent and was unluckily caught on a radio which would've had no impact otherwise, the crime was just placed fully on Timo.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't feel the timing of the radio matters because such actions can only be carried out in braking zones anyway. So the radio looks worse if you lay it over just before a braking zone, where as if it had been said on the exit of turn 2, then suddenly it looks better because the move isn't executed until later. So purely by lucky placement of the cars in a lap, the move can be seen as better or worse. So if it was an order to the driver then I don't believe that it matters what time it was given, and that there should be a heavy heavy penalty.

However if what Ullrich says is true, and that his radio is not connected to the driver, then it cannot possibly be determined that this is an order, and it is just unlucky that it was caught on a radio and TV made it look like it was an order. But even if it wasn't an order, the move must've then been Timos own decision, and the disqualification should stand.

Timing is far less important than if his radio does broadcast to the drivers. And even if Ullrich is completely innocent and was unluckily caught on a radio which would've had no impact otherwise, the crime was just placed fully on Timo.

Dr. Ullrich says that his radio was open to the driver, which it usually isn't. Timo Scheider therefor gets the message, and in the heat of the moment agrees that it is the "right" thing to do.
Of course it is Scheider behind the wheel, so the penalty goes to him. But having Dr. Ullrich giving a message like that is a huge disappointment to many, and I think that this is the reason why the reaction is so strong.

Incident all starts at Turn 2, followed by the stretch down to Turn 3, so there is plenty of time for radio messages and Scheider to understand and react before the braking zone.
I see the radio message as unsporting conduct and that Dr. Ullrich should face more punishment that just a public lynching.

[Akrapovic]

This is where I'm confused.

When asked in the post-race press conference where the radio call had originated, Ullrich answered: "It can't be from my side, because I'm not linked to any of the drivers directly.

"I only talk to the heads of the teams, so it can't be me."

"I'm sorry that I shouted, 'Timo push him out' in my initial emotion at the command post. I do not communicate with the drivers by radio during the race and did not know that the radio was open.

In the clarification it doesn't say if "open" is to the driver or not. And Timo said he didn't hear it -

"I got the confirmation that there was a call after the race, when I checked the video, so I did not hear any comment while driving," he said.

Just because the radio is open, does not mean it is open to the driver. I don't doubt that there will be an investigation into it which will determine what channels are what. But right now there seems to be conflicting information. Should it be found that Ullrichs radio was to the driver, then I don't believe the timing of the call matters and it should be a punishment.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

This is where I'm confused.

In the clarification it doesn't say if "open" is to the driver or not. And Timo said he didn't hear it -

Just because the radio is open, does not mean it is open to the driver. I don't doubt that there will be an investigation into it which will determine what channels are what. But right now there seems to be conflicting information. Should it be found that Ullrichs radio was to the driver, then I don't believe the timing of the call matters and it should be a punishment.

He does add this to the quote you selected. Indicating that he thought that Timo Scheider could hear it.

This was not an instruction for Timo by any means

It all sounds like people are trying to cover each others back. Dr. Ullrich taking full responsibility and Timo Scheider doing the same.
Audi Sport is a team which really sticks together.

But I think we agree on that Dr. Ullrich should be punished, but properly isn't going to. (Other that the battering he is receiving now)

[chernaudi]

It seems that on a reddit page that the M-B team boss has fired back by doing, among other things, calling Audi Sport Team Phoenix "onion rings".

And in actual sports car news, Spyker seems to be alive again and will be owned by a US-based electric aircraft manufacturer.

[Adam43]

"Onion rings"? Things are really getting nasty now.

If you dare the thread in the touring car forum is here: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...142863&page=12

[chernaudi]

I did mention that Spyker is back in business though.

However, I'm fairly sure that the road car end is the priority right now and Spyker won't be back in racing for the immediate future.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I did mention that Spyker is back in business though.

Yes.

However, I'm fairly sure that the road car end is the priority right now and Spyker won't be back in racing for the immediate future.

I suspect you're right.

[champcarman]

This seems to be an extremely long break in between Rounds of the WEC.

From mid June to late August with no racing?

I know recovery from the Le Mans endure may be nice but no racing in the middle of the European summer seems a bit extreme.

Any thoughts on next years Calendar as I hope to do a Euro tour in July next year?

[Akrapovic]

ELMS has a shorter recovery time than WEC. Should put an Italian round in July. Maybe Monza.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by champcarman

This seems to be an extremely long break in between Rounds of the WEC.

From mid June to late August with no racing?

I know recovery from the Le Mans endure may be nice but no racing in the middle of the European summer seems a bit extreme.

Any thoughts on next years Calendar as I hope to do a Euro tour in July next year?

Has been discussed to death numerous times before so won't go in it again but expect no WEC events in July.

You could go to the Spa 24 however but that's GTs only (Blancpain Endurance Series). ELMS might return to the Red Bull Ring in Austria in mid July and undoubtedly there'll be a number of national GT and other racing series events being held in various countries (UK, Germany, France, Italy, Belgium).

[Ephaeton]

(Racer.com) Monterey promoter breaks silence on possible ISC takeover

Since January 2014, the Monterey County Board of Supervisors has conducted closed-session meetings to discuss a new Concession Agreement without SCRAMP's knowledge. These closed-session meetings resulted in the Board of Supervisors entering into a 90-day due diligence agreement with International Speedway Corporation (ISC) to take over management and operation of the raceway. ISC is a for-profit, publicly traded corporation based in Daytona Beach, Fla., whose primary business is the ownership and management of NASCAR race tracks.

You know back in the day one used to call that bribing and corruption. Nowadays it's just the way business is rolling, and someone is gonna stand up and even be apologetic for the board's actions (as in: ISC pays more money to this single (aka our own) account, which is all we consider, contrasting to SCRAMP, who are rooted in the local community and not fill that one account as gloriously).

[Akrapovic]

This sort of thing was always going to happen once ALMS and "merged" into NASCAR. It's all becoming one big mess of NASCAR companies that'll slowly take everything.

[rich07]

I've been watching some footage from FIA GT 1997 (unfortunately it's Japanese audio but the pictures speak for themselves) and I noticed at some races (Spa and Silverstone) that both short tail and longtail McLaren F1 GTR compete in the same race. Never knew this was the case. No idea on laptimes but wouldn't be conclusive seeing as though the longtails were being run by powerhouses Schnitzer (factory) and GTC (factory supported) whilst the short tail appeared to be a privateer effort.

[Samoan Attorney]

Originally Posted by rich07

I've been watching some footage from FIA GT 1997 (unfortunately it's Japanese audio but the pictures speak for themselves) and I noticed at some races (Spa and Silverstone) that both short tail and longtail McLaren F1 GTR compete in the same race. Never knew this was the case. No idea on laptimes but wouldn't be conclusive seeing as though the longtails were being run by powerhouses Schnitzer (factory) and GTC (factory supported) whilst the short tail appeared to be a privateer effort.

There were two 1995 cars that ran in the 1997 FIA GT Championship

Jean-Luc Maury-Laribiere's 05R ran at Hockenheim (14th), Nüburgring (17th) and Spa (22nd) it was 10 seconds off at Hockenheim and Nürburgring and 15 at Spa.

Gerd Rüch ran 06R at Hockenheim and Silverstone and did not start after qualifying at Helsinki.......gearbox issues.......I recall an accident at Silverstone...........this car is better known as the Harrods McLaren, thankfully David Clark managed to buy the car after this and has restored it to former glory.

Information on this races is a bit sketchy, even the official yearbook put out at the time did not list Qualifying times. Fortunately Janos Wimpffen's bible Time and Two Seats does.

[rich07]

Cheers John for the info. The ex Harrods car definitely crashed at Silverstone as the crash is shown on the vision I was watching, the rear end got wiped out, sad to watch. Shame they don't show the three GTC cars taking each other at Spa leading to World War Three in the GTC pits as you aptly described it in your coverage of the 97 season on Speedhunters. (I really miss your contributions to that site btw, it really is their loss, especially the retrospectives).

[Samoan Attorney]

Originally Posted by rich07

Cheers John for the info. The ex Harrods car definitely crashed at Silverstone as the crash is shown on the vision I was watching, the rear end got wiped out, sad to watch. Shame they don't show the three GTC cars taking each other at Spa leading to World War Three in the GTC pits as you aptly described it in your coverage of the 97 season on Speedhunters. (I really miss your contributions to that site btw, it really is their loss, especially the retrospectives).

Rich that is very kind of you to say so, the SpeedHunters episode is a long time past. I write for this fine organisation now. It is not literature but it pays the bills..............

If you are looking for a bit of nostalgia from that time of GTs, I republished this piece about the disintegration of the BPR HERE

I'd like to think we have moved on since then, but in which direction?

[Deleted]

Let's play stupid game vol 3564.

Because cupcakescupcakescupcaaakes why not.

Introduction and Rules
- You are the owner of privateer team _________ Racing/Team/Motorsports.
- You have 12 million dollars for single season and not a penny more.
- From the below lists you may purchase cars and enter races.
- All the prices have been decided at random and have nothing to do with reality (as does nothing here )
- You can purchase as many or little cars as you wish and enter as many races as possible with them (same car can enter multiple series/events), but you cannot exceed the previously mentioned 12 million dollar mark. Calculating this is your responsibility
- The assumption is that you will either win or place at the very least on podium at every category you enter with these cars (and if you have multiple entries in the same category they will place in nearby ish positions at the top). There are few exceptions however: [1] with Hybrid cars you will not win but place on overall positions 3-5 at best [2] AM GTE car used in US GTLM will not win but place on class positions 3-5 at best)

So what will you have?

-------------
SHOP

Machinery purchase prices per car (with eglibility mentioned)
LMP1 Hybrid Own Construct Car 6 Million (WEC in LMP1-H)
LMP1 Hybrid Customer Car 5,5 Million (WEC in LMP1-H)
LMP1 Non-Hybrid Own Construct Car 2,25 Million (WEC in LMP1-NC)
LMP1 Non-Hybrid Customer Car 2 Million (WEC in LMP1-NC)
LMP2 2017 ACO Spec Customer Car 1,75 Million (WEC in LMP2, ELMS in LMP2, AsLMS in LMP2, US in P)
LMP2 2017 US Spec Customer Car 1,6 Million (US in P)
LMGTE PRO Customer Car 1,5 Million (WEC in LMGTE-PRO, US in GTLM)
LMGTE AM Customer Car 1,5 Million (WEC in LMGTE-AM, ELMS in LMGTE, AsLMS in GT, US in GTLM)
GT3 Customer Car 1,25 Milllion (ELMS in GTC, AsLMS in GT, US in GTD)
LMP3 Customer Car 1 Million (ELMS in LMP3, AsLMS in LMP3)
LMPC Customer Car 1 Million (US in LMPC)
CN Customer Car for 0,4 Million (AsLMS in CN (if not integrated with P3??))
JAF-GT300 Customer Car 0,3 Million (AsLMS in GT)
One-Make GT Customer Car 0,2 Million (AsLMS in GT-AM)

Optional "add-ons" per car (for already purchased machinery)
ACO spec body for US LMP2 0,1 Million (LM24 only, required for US P2 there)
US OEM body and engine for ACO LMP2 0,3 Million / per race (US only, optional)
Transform existing LMGTE-PRO into AM for further eglibility 0,05 Million / per race
Transform existing LMGTE-AM into PRO for further eglibility 0,05 Million / per race

Entry fees per car (you only race at series/events you pay, and if your car is eglible (as per above mentioned classes) - same car can enter multiple series/events))
WEC Full Championship (incl LM24) 2,5 Million
US Full Championship (incl NAEC) 2,25 Million
NAEC-Only US Championship 1,6 Million
ELMS Full Championship 1,5 Million
AsLMS Full Championship 1 Million
Le Mans 24 Hours One-Off 1,25 Million
Daytona 24 Hours One-Off 0,75 Million
Sebring 12 Hours One-Off 0,75 Million
Petit Le Mans 10 Hours One-Off 0,6 Million
WEC Regular Race One-Off 0,5 Million / per race
ELMS Race One-Off 0,4 Million / per race
AsLMS One-Off 0,3 Million / per race
US (non Daytona/Sebring/PLM) One-Off 0,4 Million / per race

-------------

Righto.

The point of the 'game' is to show what your priorities as team owner would be, if you had this theoretical machinery within your grasps.

My answer is on the following post.

[Deleted]

Chi's team:

Entry 1
LMP1 Non-Hybrid Own Construct Car (2,25 Million) entered for
* WEC Full Championship (2,5 Million)

Entry 2
LMP1 Non-Hybrid Customer Car (2 Million) entered for
* Le Mans 24 Hours One-Off (1,25 Million)

Entry 3
LMP2 2017 ACO Spec Customer Car (1,75 Million) entered for
* ELMS Full Championship (1,5 Million)
* Petit Le Mans 10 Hours One-Off (0,6 Million)

Total Spent Budget: 11,85 Million out of 12,00 Million

The teams aims: LMP1 Privateers category win (and placing high on overall P1/race) at WEC and more so Le Mans with the addition of second entry. In ELMS, championship win with the sole LMP2. Also for that car guest appearance at PLM trying to win that race with ACO specs, even though it's not easy against the US OEM cars

Team could've chosen Daytona or Sebring instead of Atlanta due to the leftover 150,000 in budget but voted against it because they prefered the autumn coolness.

[Bob Baldwin]

Somewhat BOGUS game if the $$$'s are NOT realistic

[Deleted]

I was just trying to have fun the sums weren't the point of it either, but the priorities of choosing. It took quite a while to decide even these fake sums to make some strategy out of it.

I guess one could go on research and calculate right amounts for designing+building cars, buying/leasing used cars, paying entry fees, logistics, travelling, personell costs, testing, fuel, tires, equipment, spares, catering, marketing, public relations, salaries and all that crap, and for every single possible category variation there is, but who would do that for some random forum game?

[Rodger Davies]

I like the game, I'll get back to you shortly. Bob, no fantasy sports games have realistic prices, it's just a game.

[Rodger Davies]

Although, just to be annoying, can I have a price for BES/Spa24 or VLN/N24 for my GT3s, or have my sponsors got some sort of backhander deal going on with the ACO?

[Accident]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Although, just to be annoying, can I have a price for BES/Spa24 or VLN/N24 for my GT3s, or have my sponsors got some sort of backhander deal going on with the ACO?

I was thinking the same thing... Part of why I hadn't played yet as I was torn between two others given the lack of GT3 series.

With GT3 being so wide spread though it would be a lot of work to add all of that in. Between PWC, BSS, BES, ADAC GT, VLN... the Italian GT thing, SuperGT GT300, Australian GT championship, the British GT thing, and so on. Then to add in the big races for one-offs like Bathurst 12 hour, Abu Dhabi and Dubai enduros, Spa 24, Nurburgring 24, there's a Italian one too I think? (Barcelona maybe?), and surely a few others I'm forgetting.

Yeah I know, they wouldn't all have to be on the list, but then the huge variety of places to run is the best thing about GT3 though so without it I'd probably run something else instead.

Edit: Also, slightly off-topic: What was the name of that weird endurance race that took place on a closed section of freeway and had on-ramps and an overpass (if I remember right?) on the layout? We had a thread about it around here a fair while back. I wanna say it was somewhat Eastern-European but I can't remember for sure.

[Rodger Davies]

Aye, understood - I have a list based upon the criteria above:

Cars:
2x ACO P2s - 3.5m

Programme:
2x Sebring 12 Hours
2x full season ELMS
2x WEC Spa
1x Le Mans 24 Hours (all I can expect without full time WEC)
2x Petit Le Mans

Total (fingers crossed on my maths):
11.45m

I'm more interested in racing at the right places than for a full series anywhere - individual races are more interesting and enjoyable to me than actual championship battles. I've chosen Sebring and Road Atlanta over Daytona partially for the schedule and partially because I think they're better balanced for P2 cars.