Bridgestone = tyred out?

[sonic]

Its the reason F1 is exciting this year

Its the reason McLaren are managing to be ultra competitive with last years car.

Its the reason The Red Cars, BAR, Sauber are all struggling

The reason? - Bridgestones black round bits are underperforming and Michelin have got their act together.

so do we reckon Bridgestone will sort it out or just retire from F1?

[krt917]

Completely agree, though I reckon that McLaren, Williams and Renault have raised their games too.

What will Bridgestone do? I would have thought they'd respond, especially all the time that they've got Ferrari on their books. Wouldn't look to good if they went now either, so I reckon they'll stay for a while.

[Irv the Swerve]

The tyre war has swings and roundabouts too. Bridestone are down now, but that won't last.

God help the game when they come back on song because its gonna be the Rubens and Michael show again.

Hey, remember Rubens?

[Bononi]

Rubens who ?

[Shoe-maker]

Michelin is the difference because that McLaren is still last year's car and it's keeping up with Ferrari. For Williams though, I think there's been some car improvements.

[neilap]

I have never agreed with the "tire war". These teams spend too much money developing their cars to have the tires be the weak link. The Ferrari looked average compared to the BMW and the Macs. Most would agree that a 2year old Mac should not be able to compete with the new, latest and greatest Ferrari.

Even worse, Ferrari gets first bids on the tires. So other teams on Bridgestones are being held back. IMO, the tire war has made the races a joke. Who cares if it was a Williams 1 2? I don't! I know it was down to the tires, not the car, not the drivers. So unless I am a Michelin fan, I don't care much for the results. I am already a minority because I care more about Honda than I do the drivers. Now imagine the poor fellow that is a tire fan. Thats what we will have to be to appreciate the silly "races" where one tire manufacturer is dominant over the other. GF's "win" is and example of the garbage...

[Glen]

Part of it though, Neil. The team is made up of lots of ingredients, including the tyres. They still have to help develop the tyres, figure out how to design the car to best exploit the tyres, choose the best compounds and constructions and work out how to reconcile those choices with the optimum race strategy. The drivers need to understand the tyres - how they will wear, how to look after them, how to get a quick lap out of them on Saturday without compromising the race... It is all part of it. Williams get 1-2 because they have got all of this right, as well as many other factors.

[BootsOntheSide]

The logic that last eyar's car is still succesful for McLaren purely because of the tyres is flawed. The car, which has had significant enhancements along the way, is even or better than the new Williams, and a head of the new renault on most tracks. DC's lame performances and Kimi's inexperience are slightly disguising that.

Tyre wars can be bad for the sport in situations such as last year, when I'm sure they partially scuppered mcLaren, but Williams paid the penalty for how heavy their car was on tyres. This year, they've done a better job, or Michelin have.

Michaelin may be on top in the dry, especially hotter conditions, but when it's colder, or raining, Bridgestone still come out on top. Fisichella's win would've been Michael's, but for turn 3, or Rubens' but for whatever went wrong on the reliable old car. Button may've thrown away a top result too.

[neilap]

My point though is who cares what tires the teams are on? Only Michelin and Bridgestone care. I did not go out to buy Bridgestone tires because they helped Ferrari win.

Its true that the teams have to choose the tires that work best with the car. If the Bridgestones best tires are still worse than the Michelins, it is through no fault of the Bridgestone teams. However, they pay the price. The only time Bridgestone has been better all year is in the wet. Ferrari are the only ones to perform on Bridgestones. Even this race. JB had to basically hold up the cars behind him just to get points. He admitted he had to drive carefully just to prevent destroying his tires.

Maybe I am missing something, but I thought F1 was a showpiece for technology. This is where the manufacturers show what they are made of. If tires are the difference makers then what does it really show? It shows that even Ferrari, with the best support from Bridgestone, the best car and argueably the best driver ever in F1 can still lose races just because of poor tires. That, to me is a sad state of affairs. Personally I would rather see Ferrari dominate the title chase on spec tires for decades than watch better teams lose because they have inferrior tires.

Can anyone here honestly say they feel the Mac, or the Williams are as good as the Ferrari? I feel its the tires that are making the difference.

[Dani Filth]

you do have a point there ..

[Glen]

Why pick on tyres? They make a big difference, but so does aerodynamic efficiency, or placement and amount of ballast, or fuel... where do you end the spec?

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by neilap
Can anyone here honestly say they feel the Mac, or the Williams are as good as the Ferrari? I feel its the tires that are making the difference.

Even Jean Todt has admitted that at the Nurburgring the Ferrari just wasn't on the pace. He reckoned it was the first race when the Ferrari (not the Bridgestones, but the Ferrari) hadn't been the quickest car.

I think Williams have certainly made strides forward - they've been on Michelins all year and have only just come good, so there have definitely been big developments in the car, not just the tyres.

I'd have thought Bridgestone would respond to the pressure from Michelin. Perhaps they'd just drop out if they only had midfield teams to work with, but they're supplying Ferrari and they know that that car is capable of winning on every circuit. Plus, if they keep underperforming then Ferrari will switch to Michelin eventually which I'm sure would be very bad news for Bridgestone.

[Adam43]

When talking about Ferrari I think Jean probably talks about the whole package (including the tyres). Did he specifically say that he was taking into a account the tyres?

They work so close with Bridgestone and the tyres are so important that when bolted to the car they are just a bit that makes up the Ferrari.

[Blue]

I do hope Bridgestone withdraw from f1 next season.

[Inigo Montoya]

On Gazzetta the other day, Todt was "sounding the alarm" regarding the performance of the Bridgestones. But he also said there is alot more to come from the F2003GA in terms of development.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Blue
I do hope Bridgestone withdraw from f1 next season.

I don't I like the tyre war. It seems to make for good competition and at the moment I think it is the tyres that is giving us some racing.

[neilap]

Originally posted by Glen
Why pick on tyres? They make a big difference, but so does aerodynamic efficiency, or placement and amount of ballast, or fuel... where do you end the spec?

All these factors are up to the teams. Tires are not. If they design a poor car then thats their fault. But if the car is good and the tires are not then there is not much they can do.

MS made a statement about the tires before and the team had him clarify his statements. Even the Michelin runners admit the tires are making the difference. I am not knocking the Williams nor Macs but they are not as well built. Williams have made huge strides but its still not at the level of the Ferrari, IMO.

[Logrence]

Let's be honest - we don't know how good the Ferrari is yet...I don't think there's all that much difference between the tyres, really...I just think the rest of the top 4 have upped their game compared to last season...

[gttouring]

BOOTSoN tHE sIDE HAS CERTAINLY MADE AN ARGUMENT
Ferrari is arguably the best all around team, with the best driver now if not ever.
bridgestone let them down in a huge way. sure the BMW has more power, but the F2003GA is an absolute stunner, the MP17-D is no slouch seeing it is mostly last years car. I can't see why there is no specification to the tyres if there are going to be different manufacturers why are they so wildly different, isn't it their Formula 1 as well, what are the regs concerning tyres and temp and width and compound softness, or can you even police this?

[pole2pole]

Michelin have raised there game big time. Remember last season when those two ferraris where first and second on the grid and when the lights went out they where at times up to two seconds a lap faster than anything out there. They finish for the season and when they returned for this season there advantage was gone. Two things come to mind 1. This has proved that the 02 Mclaren is one hell of a car last year they just didnt have the rubber to perform. 2. How good was that 2002 Ferrari?.

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by pole2pole
This has proved that the 02 Mclaren is one hell of a car last year they just didnt have the rubber to perform. 2. How good was that 2002 Ferrari?.

1. This Mac they run this year bears little resemblance to that which ran last year. Heavily modified and developed in the winter.

2. Ooooh, just about the most succesful F1 car ever

[avsfan733]

I really think the tires are mostly to blame for the fact that this years championship is close. The Ferrari IMO is head and shoulders above all the other cars. Its been let down on most of the courses by the Bridgstones. It also doesn't help that they are located in Japan as opposed to Michelin right here in France. I heard something on speedvision about Michelin being able to respond and create tires to the specific weather forcast, no thats impressive turnaround time for a tire

[esorniloc]

What would really make it interesting is if a 3rd or even a 4th tyre manufacturer were to come in.

[Adam43]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Pirelli style front row Tyrell efforts at Monaco! Nice

[Glen]

If the performance gaps come from the tyres how come Williams have been able to improve so much and overhaul McLaren? Tyres are only one factor, and even then the teams play a major role in developing the tyres. Don't forget, every team gets their own tyres - tailored to suit their requirements. The tyre partner in a team is no different to the engine partner - the engine partner works with, or even within, the team to produce the best package - the best synergy - and so does the tyre partner.