What if Honda had chosen Jordan instead of BAR

[davyboy]

As good old Murray used to say, F1 is IF spelt backwards. But here's an IF I've been thinking about for some time now. I wonder what what the state of the grid would be like today if Honda had put their eggs in the Jordan basket rather than the BAR one. Back in the late 1990s, Jordan were Honda's leading team, had grabbed a few race wins and even an outside chance at the championship itself. At that time, BAR was still mired in 'start-up' problems which evolved into political issues and have since surfed on to yet more problems.

EJ certainly had a way of dealing with the Japanese that nobody at BAR had back then. He also had a fabulous group of people around him all of whom enjoyed and respected the team. Jordan also managed to galvanize a great team fan base... something BAR really struggled to do. Much of this evaporated when Honda left, as expected.

If Honda had stayed with Jordan, would they have emerged as a McLaren/Renault/Ferrari today ? Would EJ still be in F1 ? Would Honda have bagged a championship at this stage ? If not, I certainly think that they would have been successful at winning more races, something 6 years down the line they've yet to break their duck with at BAR.

[kipper]

I doubt very much whether a Jordan-Honda combination would have delivered better results than BAR. The good results that Jordan took with a Mugen Honda engine, although impressive, the field was probably weaker then with only McLaren and Ferrari in a regular hunt for wins, as Williams and Benetton were struggling with outdated Supertec engines, the '99 BAR was plain awful, Jaguar were restructuring, etc.

Also, Honda probably chose BAR to be its sole team given the much better budget, a former World Champion driver plus better facilities. Also, at their peak Jordan subcontracted a lot of work out. Therefore, a much more convincing case could have been made to focus on BAR and although subsequent results have not gone Honda's way, I very much doubt whether a Jordan team would have achieved better results.

[avsfan733]

I think that by the time they were in position to make that decision Jordan was already on the downslope. They also clearly wanted a team where they could exert as much control as they desired. Much more likely to happen at BAR.

[ss_collins]

Honda have a history of averageness in F1 when they try to more than the engine - they looked into buying Jordan in 1998 but it didn't come off. ou can read more about it in my next book which should be out for christmas.

[davyboy]

I think you're right about Honda failing to achieve when they take overall control of the entire project. The formula for success they had with Canon-Williams and Marlboro-McLaren in the 1980s was something they should probably have reflected on more.
I certainly think Jordan was on a downslope after the annoucement that Honda was to supply a single engined team and that was to be BAR, but before that they had some incredible people working there, many of whom took on key positions at other race winning teams, and were actually regular contenders for race wins. I do think that this would have been a platform on which greater success could have been built in the proceeding years.
If you look at what BAR have done in the years since, it has been decidedly mediocre and they're still struggling for their first victory.

[DeoValente]

Theres been a lot of talk about Honda not being serious enough for F1 but lately they seem to be close(r) to the top than ever. In the Jordan days it was a Mugen effort and internally there has been a lot of reshuffling since to become a good enginemanufacturer. Remember they have been ridiculed not so long ago for making grenade like engines and only purchased BAR last winter. In effect they only exist for 3 or 4 months. I do wonder if puttinga bit more effort and money into Jordan would have helped the yellow team more. Their car was fast but unreliable. Their designer was ace but moneyhungry. All problems of the sort you should cure with a bit more $$$$.
And Jordan ahd more good personel walking around, lots of experience too so i have to say i think going with EJ was certainly not a bad bet for the long run. They gave him a bit of time, too short for Eddie to solve the reliability issues and the walking out of Gascoyne hasnt helped. Now they have Geoff Willis who does/did a lot of good for BAR. I also think the pitstopdramas last weekend could have been prevented by a more experienced team but i have faith in the end its gonna be cured enough to at least win a race or 2. Wether thats with Jense i dont know. Personally i doubt his skills and i wont be suprised if Rubens will take that first win.

[ss_collins]

how much of Mugen is Mugen though...

Honda have really been in F1 since 1993 without a break - you just didn't notice them.

[DeoValente]

Iirc Mugen was a totally different division from Honda than the HRD department that is building the engines nowadays. The shift came when they decided to play sole suplier to BAR and they would send new engineers to work with the team for a few weeks and then rotate another batch of engineers, wich didnt help the progress one bit. That was the reason Honda got a lot of stick from motorsport journos that they werent serious enough about F1. The engineer rotation has stopped and design is now under supervision of some old school Honda designers. Mugen is completly out of it and builds different engines but im not sure about that last bit.

[marzF1rocks]

I really don't think it would have mattered, Both teams were pretty even at the time...

[BootsOntheSide]

When Honda made the decision to buy into BAR, they had much strogner resources than Jordan - better facilities, a bigger staff base, stronger finances, and ultiamtely more potential. They also felt they were more liekly to be able to completely buy into the team in the future, remembering that David Richards was employed on a short-term consultancy basis. It was unfortunate that Jordan suffered as a result when they had done everything right (other than the Frentzen sacking fiasco), but I think Honda made the most logical decision.

[Skam85]

And of course the promise of Jenson Button's services in 2003. I can imagine that would have helped BAR's cause in wooing Honda.

[ss_collins]

no button was not a factor.