If you were Long Beach why would you sign on with CCWS next year!

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by luke

Sure the current layout isn't as great as previous ones, but they can't go back to some of the original lyouts I'm told, because of buildings built etc.
But the current Monaco layout, is not the best there has been, but because of history, and it's a great event, it's still a great race.
Which is Long beach.

Roll on. the....

The core sections of Monaco has stayed the same, however. The same cannot be said for Long Beach.

Not to mention Monaco has nicer surroundings and more variation (in the "elevation changes" department in particular).

[BootsOntheSide]

Fair points rustyfan, from a pure racing perspective Monaco is possibly the best street circuit in the world, although the way they've mvoed some of the barriers back in the last couple of years does annoy me, as it makes it easier than it was - the track which should be the ltiamte test of driver rather than car.

The facts electrocuted posted are interesting. Looking a US attendances, the IRL has generally been a lot more successful even when you ignore Indy (which will probably always be the biggest US OW race, no matter which series it's part of; a fact CART wrongly ignored), and its 2004 Milwaukee race got 50% more attendees than ChampCars did in either 2003 or 2004. I'm not sure whether you'd expect the IRL to get more at St Pete's than ChampCars did in 2003 - it's not a brand new race, and any momentum from the first race will've been lost by the lack of a 2004 visit, and there's excitement but also real doubt over the potential quality of IRL street races, but there will be more big names out there than 2 years ago. The 2006 attendance would perhaps be the acid test, as to how many first-timers enjoy it and return.

[luke]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

2004 Milwaukee race got 50% more attendees than ChampCars did in either 2003 or 2004.

The reason imo, is to why the irl, race had a bigger attendance (37,821 to 20,000) compared to the Champ Car race, is that the Champ Car race, was a night race, and I'm sure it was much colder, which didn't help.

And as this year the Champ Car race, is a day race, I would expect both would have a similar attendance, when compared, imo.

[luke]

As to answer the question of the title, of the thread........If you were Long Beach why would you sign on with CCWS next year! Can we look at the positives, as to why it should still be a Champ Car race.
Instead of the negatives most of the time.

[indycool]

Times change. People change. Situations change. Electrocuted makes a lot of sense in his post. If you have 25,000 at Cleveland and it looks packed, and 40,000 at Phoenix, and it looks empty because they seat 80,000 at Phoenix, which had the larger attendance?

There are comparisons to make in regard to changing series at popular venues. Long Beach made a change when it went with CART instead of F-1 because it couldn't afford F-1 any more. There wasn't much change in attendance when that happened. And Long Beach has been in the delicate position of being "first up" during the past few years.

Phoenix has been at the forefront of change twice. In 1979, Phoenix dumped USAC for CART. In '96, Phoenix dumped CART for IRL. In both cases, Phoenix was "first up" to make the switches. In both cases, attendance dropped slightly for a year or two but regained it quickly.

Long Beach has actually been losing attendance over the past few years. There are going to be a lot of factors in any decision Long Beach makes other than how many hardcore CCWS fans go there and would refuse to go if IRL is chosen as the headliner.

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by luke

Can we look at the positives, as to why it should still be a Champ Car race.
Instead of the negatives most of the time.

You're in the wrong forum for that.....

What can the IRL bring that Champcar can't?
Underpowered, over downforced racing machines and money hungry team owners....that's about it.

I agree that this years race and the statements about it will be interesting to see this year. I think as soon as the series related stuff is out of the way and the trucks are on the road to LB, The Three Amigos should turn their attention to sewing up the Long Beach contract for a good long while (though perhaps leave PG at home eh.... )

Although this could be yet another case of a track dropping the name IRL in an attempt to get a better deal......that's just so easy to do to apply pressure on Champcar these days

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by luke

As to answer the question of the title, of the thread........If you were Long Beach why would you sign on with CCWS next year! Can we look at the positives, as to why it should still be a Champ Car race.
Instead of the negatives most of the time.

... but some people are prefering bashing and crying

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally Posted by luke

The reason imo, is to why the irl, race had a bigger attendance (37,821 to 20,000) compared to the Champ Car race, is that the Champ Car race, was a night race, and I'm sure it was much colder, which didn't help.

And as this year the Champ Car race, is a day race, I would expect both would have a similar attendance, when compared, imo.

Weren't night races one of CART's bright ideas to boost attendances?

We really don't know what the IRL would bring to Long Beach. A more secure contract, perhaps. As for the racing, let's see if the IRL has a good race at St. Pete's before drawing any conclusions.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by codename_47

You're in the wrong forum for that.....

So just because it's a Champ Car forum one has think everything is jolly-good?

Thinking back to the late 90's and remembering how bloody damn awesome Champ Car was makes it impossible for me to ignore the very obvious problems that exists with Champ Car today (and US open-wheel racing in general, for that matter).

That, however, is something to be discussed in another (beaten-to-death-already) thread altogether

[blaarg]

Another champcar bashing thread! Absolutely amazing....

[Kicking-back]

It's not Champ-Car bashing.

It's absolute bloody frustration at what American single-seater racing has become - when there was once one great series...

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

So just because it's a Champ Car forum one has think everything is jolly-good?

No, but it's the ratio that's important.
X amount of good news vs Y amount of bad news......
X amount of talk discussing racing vs Y amount of talk discuss the series finances and attendance (And aren't the threads when people post seat counts at IRL races VS Seat counts at Champcar races always fun!.....oops! )

X amount of honest opinions Vs y amounts of spin, either good or bad....

Too much of any of these and it turns into a party political broadcast rather than a forum,....

I just want to discuss some racing! Not the 32nd anniversary "IRL to Long Beach/Canada/Mexico/The moon/anywhere else we hold dear thread!
Stupid off season!!

But then, as we will soon discover, things always look worse in the off-season....

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by codename_47

I just want to discuss some racing!

So do I, and if Champ Car wouldn't have been so extremely late with the driver lineup, the fully confirmed schedule and the season start, we would be discussing the racing and current happenings - not sit around and discuss those three issues for the less-than-positive things they are.

Still, the last couple of days, with Walker's announcement in particular, have been a bit more positive. Hopefully it's a sign of more good things to come.

[luke]

Originally Posted by indycool

Times change. People change. Situations change. Electrocuted makes a lot of sense in his post. If you have 25,000 at Cleveland and it looks packed, and 40,000 at Phoenix, and it looks empty because they seat 80,000 at Phoenix, which had the larger attendance?

Phoenix has been at the forefront of change twice. In 1979, Phoenix dumped USAC for CART. In '96, Phoenix dumped CART for IRL. In both cases, Phoenix was "first up" to make the switches. In both cases, attendance dropped slightly for a year or two but regained it quickly.

From Speed

Sure, it's not the only game in town like it was in the '60s and before NASCAR's emergence, but Winston Cup was already pulling in 80,000 in '95 when CART drew 64,000. The question is, where did all those fans go? Many of them were miffed in 1996 when they came to PIR and found Kite, Murphy and Carlson instead of Andretti, Rahal and Unser. Maybe they turned to stock cars or simply tuned out Indy cars.

An optimistic estimate would be 5,000 and, as one member of the media observed, "I had more people at my wedding."

As the irl race at Phoenix doesn't seem to popular, I only wished Champ Car had the 'desert mile' race again.

In 2003 when Fontana was canceled, I believe there was a chance that Phoenix, could take over the race, for that year, due to the fires. (as I think both tracks, are owned by the same company.)

[camcartfan]

Would a twIRL car even fit on the Long Beach course? It would be similar to racing diesel trucks down Shoreline Drive.