Production Saloons return in 2007

[Redlake27]

It looks like Production Saloons will be back in 2007. I used to enjoy the heyday in late 80s and early 90s with Cosworths, M3s, Starions, Golfs, Astras and Swifts. What do you reckon the chances of a successful series are today?





From BARC website:

Following a review of the BARC portfolio, a gap in the current motorsport market has been identified.

Therefore it is proposed in 2007 to resurrect a race series for ‘current’ production saloon and sports coupe cars (i.e. cars manufactured between 2001 and 2005).

Series production 2, 3, 4 & 5 door saloon cars and sports coupe cars with fixed or folding steel roofs will be eligible (the latter possibly being subject to a performance equalisation weight penalty).

All cars will be standard production cars with no opportunity for modification except safety and handling.

Races will be high profile club events at national circuits.

It is believed that a true production car race series was last run in 1997 (having first been introduced and run continuously since 1972).

PREVIOUS WINNERS INCLUDE :

GERRY MARSHALL [four times – Triumph Dolomite Sprint / Ford Capri]
TONY LANFRANCHI [twice – Moskvitch 412 / VW Scirocco]

Also in no particular order:

KEITH O’DOR, PIERS JOHNSON, JEFF ALLAM [Vauxhall Magnum], VIC LEE [VW Golf], LIONEL ABBOTT [SAAB], TOM SEGRUE [Porsche], GRAHAM SCARBOROUGH [Ford Capri], GUY POVEY [BMW M3], ANDY BRITNELL [Ford Escort Cosworth], TIM BUSBY [Honda Civic V-Tec], KARL JONES [Fiat Strada Abarth]

Should there be sufficient interest, a stand alone double header race will be organised in October 2006 in preparation for a full season of six double header (2 x 20 min races) events starting in April 2007

Interested parties should contact the BARC at Thruxton Circuit within one month of this announcement for further details. Should there be insufficient interest in this time no futher action will be taken.

DALE WELLS
Competitions Manager – BARC Ltd.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PROPOSED PRODUCTION CAR SERIES


Any 2, 3, 4 or 5 door production saloon car with 4 or 5 seats

Any 2 or 3 door production coupe (with fixed or folding steel roof) with 2 or 2+2 seats (may be subject to weight adjustment penalty)
CLASS A 1350cc – 1600cc + <1400cc forced induction
CLASS B 1601cc – 2000cc + 1401cc – 1600cc forced induction
CLASS C 2001cc – 2500cc + 1601cc – 2000cc forced induction
BODY : STD BODYWORK – NO CHANGES TO FRONT OR SIDE SILHOUETTE
NO STIFFENING OR LIGHTENING
INTERIOR : STD DASH PANEL / GLASS / WINDOW MECHANISMS / TRIM MUST BE MAINTAINED
STD INSTRUMENTS / AIRCON & HEATER / AUDIO SYSTEMS MAY BE REMOVED
CARPETS / HEADLINING / BOOT TRIM MAY BE REMOVED
ADDITIONAL SEATING / SOUND DEADENING MAY BE REMOVED
DRIVERS SEAT MAY BE REPLACED BY RACING SEAT
ADDITIONAL COMPETITION INSTRUMENTATION MAY BE ADDED
SUSPENSION : STD TRACK – ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION - MAY BE LOWERED
STD ANTI ROLL BARS – ADJUSTMENT TO CAMBER ONLY
NO PLASTIC BUSHES OR ROSE JOINTS
REPLACEMENT SHOCK ABSORBERS ALLOWED
MINIMUM RIDE HEIGHT 75mm
BRAKES : STD SIZE CALIPERS / DISCS
BRAKE FRICTION MATERIAL / FLUID FREE
ABS TO BE DISCONNECTED / REMOVED
WHEELS : STD FITMENT
TYRES : CONTROL LIST 1B TYRE
TRANSMISSION : STD TRANSMISSION / FINAL DRIVE / RATIOS
CLUTCH FRICTION MATERIAL FREE
TRACTION CONTROL TO BE DISCONNECTED / REMOVED
ENGINE : STD TO MODEL – NO POLISHING / PORTING
STD CAM / STD ECU / STD INDUCTION EQPT / STD EXHAUST MANIFOLD
STD OIL + WATER COOLING EXCEPT ADDITIONAL OIL COOLER MAY BE FITTED
AIR FILTER MATERIAL FREE
EXHAUST FREE FROM MANIFOLD DOWN
SAFETY EQUIPMENT : MSA ROLL CAGE, MSA PLUMBED IN FIRE EXTINGUISHER


LIST OF SUGGESTED ELIGIBLE CARS :

All cars must have been in production between 1.1.2001 and 31.12.2005 (maximum 5 years old) – date will move by one year every year; therefore older cars whose production ceases before the stated period will become ineligible on annual date change.

After eligibility expires, cars will be allowed to join a new Class E (economy class) of the Toyo Tyres Modified Production Saloon Championship.

Older cars may be updated to current (2001 – 2005) spec provided that appearance is of current car built in that period

ALFA ROMEO 147
ALFA ROMEO 155
ALFA ROMEO 156
ALFA ROMEO 145
AUDI A3
AUDI A4
AUDI TT
BMW 3 SERIES COMPACT
BMW 3 SERIES
CITROEN C3
CITROEN C4
CITROEN XSARA
FIAT STILO
FORD FIESTA
FORD FOCUS
FORD MONDEO
FORD PUMA
HONDA ACCORD
HONDA CIVIC
HYUNDAI COUPE
LEXUS IS2000
MAZDA 3
MAZDA RX8
MG ZR
MG ZS
MINI
MINI COOPER
NISSAN MICRA
PEUGEOT 206
PEUGEOT 206CC
PEUGEOT 307
PEUGEOT 406
RENAULT CLIO
RENAULT MEGANE
SEAT AROSA
SEAT IBIZA
SEAT LEON
VAUXHALL ASTRA
VAUXHALL CORSA
VAUXHALL TIGRA
VAUXHALL VECTRA
VOLKSWAGEN GOLF
VOLKSWAGEN LUPO
VOLKSWAGEN POLO
VOLVO S40

[Dave Brand]

Great news! Back to proper saloon car racing!

[Al Weyman]

Looks good but no big bangers like Monaros. Never understood why ProdSaloons was not more popular and died. Nice built in future proofing in the Toyos as well both for the cars and the championship, I like that.

[ss_collins]

no need for this series

[graham bahr]

hmm, interesting, although i suspect of limited appeal to the majority of clubmen, due to the short eligability lifespan, and the fact that most clubmen are tuners and modifiers.

maybe i'm getting old, but i like my road cars to feel like roadcars and race cars to perform and handle like one! so personally i wouldn't want to race what is effectivly a road car still

[Al Weyman]

There is some nice modern stuff out there now though that would respond well to the allowed modifications all about money though I guess but may be cheaper in the long run especially if you could pick up a flood damaged late model or whatever. Also the fact they can race in the Toyos new class looked a pretty sensible move to me.

[Simon Mason]

I was a big fan of Production Saloons and raced in it in 91. I believe it was killed by Group N. All the boys with the cash and enthusiasm for them at the time rightly wanted the faster cars and prestige so went to group N which became grossly expensive for what it was. Within 5 years both were dead firstly because the grids in Prods were depleated and secondly by the GrpN cars being so expensive to run.

Frankly the choice of cars open to the series from the mid 90's was also pretty uninspiring and slower then older stuff like the Civic's M3's and Skylines.

It was also a very expensive series to win races in because of product knowledge. For example a standard Golf 16v was 136bhp @ 7000rpm ish officially, the no mods allowd, production built to factory specification engines pushed out an easy 165 to 170bhp at 8000rpm if you knew the right stuff. It takes allot of time and skill to generate that sort of power hike in a standard and legal engine without a trick ECU but thats what prod saloons is about!!

The BRSCC tried to revive it in 2002 or 03 can't remember which and only 3 cars were built, 2 MG ZR's and a 106GTi. However, planning it for 2007 might just give it the kick start needed. I for one will be looking at it for 07.

[Al Weyman]

Did you see the Stig lapping in the Diesel Golf faster than the 70's supercars on TopGear. That how far things have progressed since the days of polution controlled plodders, they got around that with technology, I think the time is right for a revival.

[Tony_Simpson]

I'm suprised they have not got any classes for Diesel cars.

know they have classes for forced induction cars but I don't see for example a Seat Leon cupra TDi beating a Leon Cupra R with the same rules in the same class........

If Diesel is going to be a way forward in racing then series like this need to allow them a chance to compete fairly.

[Al Weyman]

Yes I agree with you there. Maybe worth emailing them with your thoughts.

[Snapper Baz]

I agree with SS' on this-Britcar (Production S1 actually) has a nice series which see's many of these types of car in which the competitors seem happy with and what with some much needed rules changes due for 06' in this class I'm sure this will be good news to those who thought they were being outdone so I wonder where the drivers might come from for this "new" class? I doubt if any "new" drivers would want to join a new series and have to pay the high entree fee's to do so instead of running in smaller clubie meetings (ie SEMSEC) at present possibly?? Another waste of time I say!

[Al Weyman]

Yes but surely in Britcar a production based car would be well down the field overall whereas in this new championship they have the opportunity to be up at the sharp end.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

no need for this series

....or maybe the series which isn't needed is TOCA?

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Snapper Baz

I agree with SS' on this-Britcar (Production S1 actually) has a nice series which see's many of these types of car in which the competitors seem happy with and what with some much needed rules changes due for 06' in this class I'm sure this will be good news to those who thought they were being outdone so I wonder where the drivers might come from for this "new" class? I doubt if any "new" drivers would want to join a new series and have to pay the high entree fee's to do so instead of running in smaller clubie meetings (ie SEMSEC) at present possibly?? Another waste of time I say!

You're missing the point here. What is being proposed is a national production car championship running races solely for production cars, not just as a class in a dull, boring endurance 'race' or as a local championship.

I'd expect this to attract a lot of the manufacturers currently not running in TOCA (Ford, Alfa, Renault, Nissan, Volvo, etc., etc......the list is endless!); costs would be much lower & the cars more identifiable as something the punter can actually.

Let's just hope the people organising it can impose a higher level of driving standards than we see in TOCA......

[jonners]

turbo pop off valves, sealed ecu's....feels like yesterday...

rubbish list of cars - not really prod saloons as i remember them

does anyone really believe one of those 70's supercars in good order driven by the same driver would have been beaten by the diesel??

Top Gear is well know for 'manipulation' - for example they asked a driver of a 3.0 csl batmobile to drive around their test track until lapped by Clarkson in an m3 csl - driver of the bat said it took him 5 laps but he said 3 on the programme

other example is clarkson at the ring in the diesel....

aplologs for going off topic

[Redlake27]

There are going to be plenty of Clios, Leons and Mini Coopers that could be converted to a more standard spec when their championships begin to use new shape cars. These would have another couple of seasons life in such a championship.

It would be good to see some variety, such as Alfas and Honda Civics but a few more obscure makes in it too. The old prodsaloons was really used well as a marketing tool by the likes of Suzuki with the Swift Gti and Fiat with the Strada Abarth.

[ss_collins]

The sensible series for perhaps 08 on would be for the abandoned one make cars, right now why do we need yet another saloon series. Where will the drivers come from? which series will lose entries. If you want a series for bog standard cars - go to stock hatch.

Production S1 fills this role already so I see no need whatsoever for this series.

[Woolley]

Hear, hear. Actually, no, I'd say the opposite. Let's have a prodsalons series and do away with the one make series. If as a manufacturer you wish to promote your product, put it into competition with something else.

[Simon Mason]

There is always space for one or two one make race series but there is also space for a decent Production Saloon series, infact I think its exactly what this sport needs to put some focus back into its current blind leading the blind situation. The marketing potential is so much higher with Production saloons and that is what any new category needs.

As for attracting drivers I don't see a problem. Stock Hatch is far from it and low profile so the big money boys in that have little reason to stay, S1 is extreamly expensive if you have any desire to win and a mirriad of Mini's , BMW, MG Trophy, Clio Cup etc all reach a piont where they want a change sooner or later.

Prods, if promoted and sponsored commercialy from the start will boom again I have no doubt.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

The sensible series for perhaps 08 on would be for the abandoned one make cars, right now why do we need yet another saloon series. Where will the drivers come from? which series will lose entries. If you want a series for bog standard cars - go to stock hatch.

Production S1 fills this role already so I see no need whatsoever for this series.

Come on SS you cannot be serious with the Stock Hatch comment, for a start they have a CC limit don't they, my 3rd gen Camaro is a hatchback and I am sure they would not let me out to play also what about saloon cars.


No I think this is a great idea in my opinion and as for the comment about a championship for one makes to go there are plenty already and was one of the reasons we started the ModProds and with the new Class E they will have a place there. In fact I would look at doing something like this in the future.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

In fact I would look at doing something like this in the future.

Ditto. I'm starting to regret the missus selling her Saxo now!

[R59]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

No I think this is a great idea in my opinion and as for the comment about a championship for one makes to go there are plenty already and was one of the reasons we started the ModProds and with the new Class E they will have a place there. In fact I would look at doing something like this in the future.

But the "big money boys" who the BARC are hoping to tempt into Production Saloons first of all have to be tempted out of Britcar Prod S1 where they get a lot of track time for their money, etc... and IF they join in, once a car is too old, it'll be discarded, which is when you 'hope' that someone will pick it up and run it in Class E ModProds. If it's a VW, it'll most likely end up in the VW Cup with the TOCA package, if it's a Suzuki, it'll probably end up as a rally car, etc.. etc.. etc.. Al, the real reason you started ModProds is that the old Road Saloons regs were too restrictive, then came Super Road Saloons, which split the masses again, that's dead, now there's Hot Hatches allowing bigger multi-valve cars in... it's a case of too many championships vying for the same competitors - the modified road-going saloon of around 1600 to 2000cc.

Like you say Al, there seems to be no room in this new series for the bigger cars, like the Monaro, but I guess it's to keep the M3's out, and the costs that go with that sort of car. If that's the case, just put a rule in, "No M-series BMW's", if it's not eligable, it don't race!

Still, the world of motorsport in the UK needs a cull, drastically. Simple solution. Disband the BRSCC!!

And SS - old one-makers go in the Eurosaloons, or ModProds or TRC or DDMC Northern Sports/Saloons, or Combe, or SEMSEC, or Welsh Sports & Saloons, or BARC NW K&N Sports & Saloons, or into Scotland or lots of other homes.

The championship should be allowed to run as a "cup" for one season (2007) and if the crowd figures don't increase (ie: the viewing public are not interested), then it should be replaced with something more exciting or just canned. S*d the competitors feelings, we need crowds, big crowds, we are a sport putting on an entertainment and should not forget it over some whim of "oooo lets do Production Saloons *again* & *again* (ad infinitum)

Now who moved my ladder so I can get off of this high horse.

Rob

[Woolley]

I'm standing on it with you! I don't even agree it should be allowed to run as a cup. Let it run as part of something else to see if it can get the numbers first. We really don't need another high profile, lot's-of-qualifying-time-and-poncing-about championship for 10 manufacturer cars. It doesn't just put off the spectators, it's things like this that are driving the marshals away too.

[Al Weyman]

Oh OK you are really gonna give it a chance then ar'nt you. I would like to see you encourage some guy to rip the heart out of what £15, or £18,000 worth of car, fit say £5000 worth of kit on it and tell him it may only be good for 10 races, it would be dead before it even started.

[R59]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Oh OK you are really gonna give it a chance then ar'nt you. I would like to see you encourage some guy to rip the heart out of what £15, or £18,000 worth of car, fit say £5000 worth of kit on it and tell him it may only be good for 10 races, it would be dead before it even started.

Exactly. It'll die like a sheep or a Subaru on a track day which isn't full to the brim of oil. One minute it'll be all rosy and smiles, the next, there will be sad faces when it blows up in an expensive mess.

Rob.