2010 Le Mans Intercontinental Cup

[JayBMS]

any word on AMR in this?

i've heard that they may do some ALMS alongside a full LMS program. but i cant see it happening really

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Shouldn't be short of entries? How many LMS entries have regularly gone to Sebring, Petit Le Mans? How did the proposed Brazilian event go over? How many went to the Asian Le Mans series? (with assistance) I suppose "some" privateers may choose to do this, instead of the ALMS, or LMS, there are afterall only limited budgets.

Here is one view, as not all seem to think this is a good idea, in this format.

If the ALMS eventually has to go their own way, so long as ACO type cars are still used, so be it, afterall it didn't harm IMSA GTP.

ACO racing has to step up it's game in the face of the spectacular, factory backed, shows Super GT and the DTM put on.

The cream of the crop needs to be competing against each other in a recognised ACO series.

[Dani Filth]

spectacular DTM show ?? .. that's a bit of an overstatement ..

[Down F0rce]

Originally Posted by JayBMS

any word on AMR in this?

i've heard that they may do some ALMS alongside a full LMS program. but i cant see it happening really

Unless I've missed an announcement somehwhere, AMR sold two of their three cars and might sit out 2010 and come back in 2011, with a brand new car. We may see those two '09 cars in private teams though.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Here is one view, as not all seem to think this is a good idea, in this format.

I never thought about it from that point of view. I selfishly thought it would be a good thing because the rounds I attend are Sebring and PLM. He's right though, if the ALMS suffers or collapses, a few extra European entries won't make any difference. I certainly don't think you would see any American based teams enter the Cup either, as no one has the resources, providing no benifit to the LMS either.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by JAG

If the ALMS eventually has to go their own way, so long as ACO type cars are still used, so be it

Exactly. If the IMSA drops ACO rules, goodbye Audi, Peugeot, Aston Martin LMPs.

[Purist]

Well, the AMR LMPs have yet to show in the ALMS at all, but yes, point taken.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by cmk

I agree with Chuck almost completely. It is nice that someone so erudite took the time to write those thoughts down and save me the time!

Ditto...I think this Intercontinental Cup is a stupid and expensive idea that will not foster any greater participation in those designated events.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by cmk

I agree with Chuck almost completely. It is nice that someone so erudite took the time to write those thoughts down and save me the time!

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

Ditto...I think this Intercontinental Cup is a stupid and expensive idea that will not foster any greater participation in those designated events.

+1, seems it will end up being a net loss to me.




L.P.

[TheNewBob]

It is a very odd time to introduce such a cup. I guess they're hoping that Audi's involvement may start the ball rolling.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Exactly. If the IMSA drops ACO rules, goodbye Audi, Peugeot, Aston Martin LMPs.

That would be the case if the ALMS went in a totally different direction, but if you had a Group C/IMSA GTP like relationship, you could have the best of both worlds.

IMSA kept cars like the 962 and Spice GTP's relatively competitive long after Europe, that could be repeated with current LMP's, for example the 908 and R10.

[NaBUru38]

It is perfect, I believe. If the ACO didn't make this cup, Audi and Peugeot could possibly drop the Sebring 12 Hours, Petit Le Mans and even the LM24 too. By making this cup, they make sure that both of them keep racing at least a few races per year (five in 2010), with the hope that the economy recovers and these carmakers (and new ones) invest again money in new automotive technologies in the form of sports prototypes.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

Ditto...I think this Intercontinental Cup is a stupid and expensive idea that will not foster any greater participation in those designated events.

Not PLM, that event has built up such a status during the past decade extra manufactuer entries are almost a given.

Now those manufactuer's, if all goes to plan, will be competing against each other in half a dozen races. What's more there didn't appear much prospect of Audi or Peugeot competing, season long, in either the LMS or ALMS, so what's the alternative, manufactuer's sitting on the sidelines, confirming a couple of entries weeks before an event?

The Asian events also opens up the possibilty of Japanease manufactuer's competing in the LMIC, whereas Toyota and Nissan only competed at Le Mans and in a single Suzuka 1000km in the late 90's.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by JAG

The Asian events also opens up the possibilty of Japanease manufactuer's competing in the LMIC, whereas Toyota and Nissan only competed at Le Mans and in a single Suzuka 1000km in the late 90's.

And every year, nearly every event through the 80's and 90's in IMSA. Nissan, Mazda (at Daytona, anyway), and Toyota in GTP; Nissan and Mazda in GTO/U.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

Not PLM, that event has built up such a status during the past decade extra manufactuer entries are almost a given.

Now those manufactuer's, if all goes to plan, will be competing against each other in half a dozen races. What's more there didn't appear much prospect of Audi or Peugeot competing, season long, in either the LMS or ALMS, so what's the alternative, manufactuer's sitting on the sidelines, confirming a couple of entries weeks before an event?

The Asian events also opens up the possibilty of Japanease manufactuer's competing in the LMIC, whereas Toyota and Nissan only competed at Le Mans and in a single Suzuka 1000km in the late 90's.

Nobody is coming back until the rules stop favouring the diesels.

This is a quote from the ALMSfans forum, when discussing Ferrari building a Prototype.. It is excerpts and not the full post.

Originally Posted by jc3

How about this for an answer:

There is no need or incentive for them to participate in today's prototype racing.

what could possibly motivate Ferrari -after all this time- to come out with a fresh, full factory-developed, factory-run P1 team effort in today's lousy economy, against a decidedly stacked rule book, and in series with terribly low media exposure

Pigs will fly first, dreamers.

The Intercontinental Cup will have very little media exposure. It's basically bragging rights. Until the rules are fixed, it won't be attractive.

It's existence costs the ALMS and the LMS, regular season entries, and funding. If the requirement is to run to full ACO rules at these races, it discourages other entries into the ALMS, knowing that at the premier races they'll lose, because the rules will be stacked against them.

It probably is a good thing in Europe, as you haven't had these quality entries for long. Our series has depended on it, and without them... were dead, or requiring a massive change. That massive change could mean no Intercontinental Cup in North America... then what do you have?

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

It probably is a good thing in Europe, as you haven't had these quality entries for long. Our series has depended on it, and without them... were dead, or requiring a massive change. That massive change could mean no Intercontinental Cup in North America... then what do you have?

jack...

so what are the possibilities of making this into a World Championship, without completely decapitating the LMS and ALMS, if any?

for those who have been following sportscars longer than i have, are we witnessing the signs of another drastic change in the sport?

[porsche91722]

In all the years I have followed sports car racing, there have been many decisions made (political and rule changes etc), that have brought out the doomsday predictions for the category. It is a bit unfortunate that the ALMS which, arguably, has been the strongest series (in recent times) up till the end of 2008, is now the series that seems to be copping it in the neck, big time. I realise that the ACO is looking at the big picture worldwide, but it seems like a big kick in the guts to the most popular series in sports car racing. From a long way across the other side of the world, it always seemed to me that the ACO and the ALMS worked well together for the successful promotion of sports car racing world wide, or at least in Europe and the U.S.
Grandam must be happy with all this.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TWK

And every year, nearly every event through the 80's and 90's in IMSA. Nissan, Mazda (at Daytona, anyway), and Toyota in GTP; Nissan and Mazda in GTO/U.

But that's a thing of the past, and now, due to costs, it appears LMS/ALMS season long entries from the likes of Audi and Peugeot are no more.

It was effectively the LMIC or nothing for the manufactuer's.

In this media age there is no need for almost twenty ACO regs races across three continents, only a handful of which had world class grids this year.

The LMIC will effectively finish off the LMS, but that's a price worth paying IF the LMIC grows to eight or so rounds, with three in Europe.

A Silverstone ACO round should have manufactuer battles and a 40k-50k attendance, as in 2008, not the low key events so many have been.

[Speed-King]

The LMIC will effectively finish off the LMS

I disagree. LMIC will make LMS worthwile for the privateer (Pro-Am) teams once again now that they don't have to race against the big guns.

Or perhaps finish off LMP1 in LMS, but not the series as a whole seeing that the Cup/Challenge is only for P1 cars. With the new production/GT2-based engines only P2s in 2010 that might actually make for a pretty interesting series with Porsche, BMW and Ferrari powered prototypes competing for class wins.

[NaBUru38]

With the Intercontinental Cup having only full-endurance races, perhaps the ACO will try adding to the 2011 Euro Le Mans calendar "not so endurance" races, don't you think? FIA GT European races will last 60 to 120 minutes, so those teams looking for longer races may have enough with four hours or 800km, for example.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I disagree. LMIC will make LMS worthwile for the privateer (Pro-Am) teams once again now that they don't have to race against the big guns.

Or perhaps finish off LMP1 in LMS, but not the series as a whole seeing that the Cup/Challenge is only for P1 cars. With the new production/GT2-based engines only P2s in 2010 that might actually make for a pretty interesting series with Porsche, BMW and Ferrari powered prototypes competing for class wins.

You could be correct about the LMIC only affecting LMP1 entries, and possibly GT1 if that class takes off, and becomes part of the LMIC.

LMP2, LMPC(3) and GT2 could run for the LMS championship.

That could also work for the ALMS.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

LMP2, LMPC(3) and GT2 could run for the LMS championship.

That could also work for the ALMS.

Except it would be as popular as Grand Am......

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

It's existence costs the ALMS and the LMS, regular season entries, and funding. If the requirement is to run to full ACO rules at these races, it discourages other entries into the ALMS, knowing that at the premier races they'll lose, because the rules will be stacked against them.

I must be missing something. I see no connection between the creation of the 2010 LMIC and your perception that its existence "costs the ALMS and the LMS, regular season entries, and funding."

What "other entries into the ALMS" is it discouraging?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

I must be missing something. I see no connection between the creation of the 2010 LMIC and your perception that its existence "costs the ALMS and the LMS, regular season entries, and funding."

What "other entries into the ALMS" is it discouraging?

1. A disincentive for Audi.
2. Must adhere to ACO rules fully at these races, so anyone else who isn't going to build a diesel.

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I disagree. LMIC will make LMS worthwile for the privateer (Pro-Am) teams once again now that they don't have to race against the big guns.

I agree. The LMS survived perfectly well this year without any manufacturer entries (or at least as well as could be expected with the ACO's poor idea of decent media coverage). I don't see why a new cup aimed primarily at manufacturers, which only really interrupts the end of the LMS season for the privateers, will do too much damage.

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

With the Intercontinental Cup having only full-endurance races, perhaps the ACO will try adding to the 2011 Euro Le Mans calendar "not so endurance" races, don't you think? FIA GT European races will last 60 to 120 minutes, so those teams looking for longer races may have enough with four hours or 800km, for example.

A reduction to four hours would keep the endurance feel and also help privateers with little money, wouldn't it? Wouldn't save much, granted, but if its enough...