Asian Le Mans Series - Page 6

Purist · 4 Nov 2019, 21:26 (Ref:3938627)

Got caught off on that circuit discussion, probably partly because the thread title hasn't been updated for the new season/years.

Anyway, interesting to see the note there that Zolder was in consideration for the 2012 ELMS, but it's not really a great comparison to Zhejiang. Zolder is half a mile longer (~25%), and has a higher proportion of quicker corners around the lap. Ningbo is about the same length as Zolder, but decidedly slower.

A bit of comparison using GT3 times from the Blancpain series:
Zolder- 2.492 miles; 1:28.363 (101.527 mph)
Ningbo- 2.494 miles; 1:41.780 (88.214 mph)
Zhejiang- 1.980 miles; 1:25.720 (83.154 mph)

Regarding Ningbo, bypassing the T13/14 chicane would make it more tolerable, but it's still not great no matter how you slice it. Zhejiang is interesting in some respects, but it's too tight and short for the AsLMS.

If you had to have a Chinese circuit, I think Zhuhai is still the best option.

I think the lap at Madras in India is also too busy, though it's not as short as Zhejiang.

Suzuka should be a fine circuit for the series, as long as the grid is sufficient to "fill the place up" as it were. It's surprising there isn't a Japanese round, but yeah, I'm not keen on the Tilkefied Fuji, by any means. Autopolis and Sugo are definitely underappreciated circuits in terms of international recognition; at least the former did get that round of the old WSC back in 1991.

I just get the feeling that Tailem Bend is going to be too busy of a lap, and create too many traffic headaches. And neither the 3.076-mile nor the 4.828-mile layouts are especially quick; it seems the longer course, like Miller, is actually the slower and messier of the two.

For Australia, I'd pretty easily take Phillip Island or Eastern Creek over The Bend. Of course, we'll see how this goes, but I'm really not sure.

I don't think Singapore would work too well for this series. I wouldn't mind seeing a return to South Korea, just not to the F1 circuit, please. Indonesia also flies under the radar, and while Sentul isn't the most fascinating place, perhaps, it's not a bad circuit, and that opening pair of corners is deceptively fast.

For my more idealized set of venues:
1. Autopolis
2. Sugo (or Suzuka if the grid is large enough)
3. Inje Autopia or Sentul
4. Buriram
5. Phillip Island

rich07 · 4 Nov 2019, 23:18 (Ref:3938644)

Phillip Island would be awesome for the LMP/GT cars but I think Tailem Bend is the only real Aussie alternative as it seems that the ownership of the Bend really want to work towards bringing international series there.

Nice to see a few new GT entries already. Good old JLOC...

Purist · 6 Nov 2019, 03:49 (Ref:3938809)

Yes, I'm aware of The Bend's pushes, but it's a lot harder to get excited when the track itself seems much more like something designed for driving/testing, rather than actual racing.

Again, going back to the closest parallel, Miller in Utah, that's officially 23 turns compared to 34, with Miller having a much greater proportion of high-speed corners (39.1% to 23.5%). and while I don't think Miller has a single sub-50-mph corner, The Bend has 5: T3, 6, 9, 33, and the 40-mph hairpin at T21. The Bend has another 6 in the ~50-60-mph range (T1, 15, 23, 27, 28, and 30). The onboard lap I found with telemetry shows only 3 places where speed exceeds 200 km/h, approaching Turns 1, 6, and 33; Miller would have double, even possibly triple that for the same car.

It's not exactly a GT3, but the 911 GT2 RS is no slouch in the performance department, and its almost 700 hp is well beyond any current GT3, particularly once you account for whichever set of BoP is being used in the given series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TD9DGGDRRo

And this one appears to be a GT3 onboard. No telemetry though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn81oc1QC5U

Yes, the LMP2s may have a few more corners where they can go very quickly, in theory; Turns 19 and 25 come to mind especially. However, this will just exacerbate the traffic issues, and the likelihood of ill-advised dives resulting in incidents. For the GTs, it's iffy whether Turns 5, 8, and 13 can be taken flat, meaning they'll need most all the road for those, and it looks like the same story for the T23-26 sequence in terms of road use. It just seems like too much scope for drivers in the quicker classes absolutely desperate not to lose gobs of time going for dicey moves.

Also, the exit of T28 bothers me, because you see drivers in the available onboards using the run-out provided by the return leg of the shorter (3.076-mile) course, but the angle at which the far edge of the pavement comes back in is rather severe, and just seems like a recipe for someone to get dumped off the road if there's a dice going on, or lappery being attempted by a higher-class car.

I know I've belabored the hell out of this, but it's bloody frustrating when you know the continent (Australia) has better circuits for the racing available, and given the hell it appears to be to get int'l series, aside from F1 at Adelaide/Melbourne or CART at Surfers, down there, it seems like you'd want to put your absolute best foot forward if you're serious about getting, and keeping, the event. In hindsight, the Sandown Int'l layout in 1984 and '88 definitely was not that "best foot" when the old WSC came to town back then.

And no, I'm not going to suggest Bathurst; I'm good with getting to have the GT3s run there. Also, even if you could swing it, I'm not so sure how Albert Park would be for a series like this; all the transitions from one run/section to another are pretty abrupt. So aside from The Bend, that basically just leaves Eastern Creek and Phillip Island that are even long enough. I think the former is decent, but yes, I simply love the latter, and I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking Phillip Island would be a mouthwatering thought with regards to a place to see a Le Mans Series run.

Coach Ep · 6 Nov 2019, 15:21 (Ref:3938887)

Adelaide would work - it has before. And a popular street course would certainly add some much needed excitement to the series.

Let's revive that race of a 1.000 years and do it on New Year's Eve!

chernaudi · 6 Nov 2019, 19:13 (Ref:3938915)

Not sure if you can hold it on the original ALMS track layout now, though. The ALMS used the old Australian GP layout, which is longer and a bit different than the V8 Supercars layout currently used.

Purist · 6 Nov 2019, 20:06 (Ref:3938930)

That's the thing. I'm not sure Rundle Road (Jones Straight) is available now, meaning you'd be stuck with the Supercars layout, which really isn't quite the same thing. And for Sportscars, you'd probably want to go back to the 1999-08 version of the Supercars course with the wider track around Turn 8.

Here's the onboard lap they showed at the beginning of the ALMS coverage in 2000. The Jones Straight is the one before the right-hander (Brewery) that leads on to the Brabham Straight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dmmcepdJ3o

I also wonder if they're using the AsLMS as a trial run before a possible visit by the FIA WEC.
https://racer.com/2019/10/18/wec-see...endar-changes/

It might be less of an issue with the Hypercars, but certainly, I'd have concerns about closing speeds with current LMP1s on the narrower, parkland sections of either iteration of Adelaide, and the shorter, Supercars layout definitely wouldn't fly with the WEC.

champcarman · 7 Nov 2019, 04:07 (Ref:3939002)

Really looking forward to this Series especially the race at The Bend.

Has anybody compiled a list of current entrants?

There seem to be announcements coming every couple of days but with Round One looming the fields must be close to finalised.

Speed-King · 7 Nov 2019, 07:44 (Ref:3939018)

Quote:

Originally Posted by champcarman

Really looking forward to this Series especially the race at The Bend.

Has anybody compiled a list of current entrants?

There you go:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Asian_Le_Mans_Series

Deleted · 7 Nov 2019, 21:59 (Ref:3939129)

It's not a particularly well compiled list though, that's what I've thought for ages now. Lots of weird assumptions and guesses on there, particularly with multi car efforts and engine choices on P2s. Plus of course "we'll hope to be there" comments from some teams which have been said months ago have been taken as sure things

Let's wait for actual entry list

Purist · 8 Nov 2019, 05:34 (Ref:3939166)

Yeah, looking at the various season lists, and it's like, um, I'm pretty sure the fields were smaller than that.

I hadn't consciously intended it that way, but it is a characteristic of all the initial set of venues I listed.
1. Autopolis- 2.904 miles
2. Sugo- 2.302 miles
3. Inje Autopia- 2.614 miles or Sentul- 2.560 miles
4. Buriram- 2.830 miles
5. Phillip Island- 2.765 miles

They're all under 3.0 miles to the lap.

Even Sepang, one of the better Asian circuits outside Japan, just feels "too big" without a fairly sizable grid. Heck, Fuji, which is in the sort of length range I'm looking, at 2.835 miles, gives that same impression to an extent. And most of these newer "top-line" circuits also come across as "too busy" over the course of the lap.

It's this combination of more moderate length and relative simplicity that makes Buriram, to my mind, one of Tilke's better Grade 1 designs, and also, probably the race I most look forward to in the AsLMS.

Deleted · 8 Nov 2019, 12:09 (Ref:3939216)

Buriram looks sooooooo boring scenery and architecture wise though. And I don't think they've ever managed to repeat the "200 000 people crowd" they accidentally managed to catch that one year for qualifying when Thai had holiday

Sepang as night race would be okay if they actually run it in the dark, not under Formula 1 level of night-for-day floodlights which to my mind defeat the purpose of night race

Anyway as I've said at least the grid this year seems rather interesting with the two LMP2 variations

Purist · 9 Nov 2019, 08:10 (Ref:3939380)

Buriram could use some more trees and embankments around the perimeter, I'll give you that. I'm less concerned about the grandstands and pit buildings though, especially since the 2004-05 window, when you had Bahrain, Shanghai, and Istanbul all join F1. Since then, I've been kind of desensitized to the successive one-upmanship we've seen with the steadily newer and newer circuits.

I'd be concerned about losing even more of the context/surroundings with a night race at Sepang. As it is, a lot of the camera angles don't take advantage of actually showing off the circuit's setting. As for F1 at night, Bahrain and Singapore are pretty squarely in darkness from start to finish, and I do like having the one race, Abu Dhabi, that goes from light into darkness.

I'd feel better about The Bend if they'd simply try the shorter (3.076-mile, 18-turn) course first. See that you don't have too many headaches on the more open layout before getting in too deep. Also, with a lack of recognizable landmarks and an abundance of medium-speed corners, I'm not sure how many people are ready to watch 6 hours on a circuit where the fastest class may only be lapping in the 2:45s.

Aren't the previous generation of LMP2s going to be running in the AM category? In that case, isn't it pretty much just going to be the new-gen LMP2s running up front?

Deleted · 9 Nov 2019, 11:22 (Ref:3939409)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

Buriram could use some more trees and embankments around the perimeter, I'll give you that. I'm less concerned about the grandstands and pit buildings though, especially since the 2004-05 window, when you had Bahrain, Shanghai, and Istanbul all join F1. Since then, I've been kind of desensitized to the successive one-upmanship we've seen with the steadily newer and newer circuits.

I'd be concerned about losing even more of the context/surroundings with a night race at Sepang. As it is, a lot of the camera angles don't take advantage of actually showing off the circuit's setting. As for F1 at night, Bahrain and Singapore are pretty squarely in darkness from start to finish, and I do like having the one race, Abu Dhabi, that goes from light into darkness.

I'd feel better about The Bend if they'd simply try the shorter (3.076-mile, 18-turn) course first. See that you don't have too many headaches on the more open layout before getting in too deep. Also, with a lack of recognizable landmarks and an abundance of medium-speed corners, I'm not sure how many people are ready to watch 6 hours on a circuit where the fastest class may only be lapping in the 2:45s.

Aren't the previous generation of LMP2s going to be running in the AM category? In that case, isn't it pretty much just going to be the new-gen LMP2s running up front?

Interesting remarks as always from you, even if I don't necessarily agree with most

Bend is only 4 Hours, not 6

And yes the old non-spec cars are in AM. The new P2s (which thankfully aren't all-Oreca as in the boring ELMS and WEC) will win the race overall but even if they weren't in separate category they are obviously quite a bit faster than the old non-specs

Purist · 11 Nov 2019, 03:09 (Ref:3939859)

The AsLMS race durations aren't the easiest thing to find, and the Wiki does list The Bend as 6 hours, last I checked. It sounds like that's wrong, but hasn't been fixed.

I wish the series would format its site more like the ELMS at least. That's one nice thing about the various Blancpain GT Series websites; they have uniform layout and such.

Deleted · 11 Nov 2019, 06:07 (Ref:3939882)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

The AsLMS race durations aren't the easiest thing to find, and the Wiki does list The Bend as 6 hours, last I checked. It sounds like that's wrong, but hasn't been fixed.

I wish the series would format its site more like the ELMS at least. That's one nice thing about the various Blancpain GT Series websites; they have uniform layout and such.

Oh. I fixed that sometime in the summer but looks as if some brainiac has put it back then... :/

And yes uniformity within ACO sites would be nice

Coach Ep · 11 Nov 2019, 17:39 (Ref:3939990)

Sounds like we might get to see an entry list in the near future (plus plenty of 'crumbs '):

https://sportscar365.com/features/as...-news-roundup/

Coach Ep · 11 Nov 2019, 17:42 (Ref:3939991)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

The AsLMS race durations aren't the easiest thing to find, and the Wiki does list The Bend as 6 hours, last I checked. It sounds like that's wrong, but hasn't been fixed.

4 races, 4 hours each according to the original, official press release: https://www.lemans.org/en/news/annou...schedule/50976

However, that's pretty old so might have been updated since.

Deleted · 12 Nov 2019, 17:17 (Ref:3940206)

It's definitely 4, someone's just stubborn on wiki, as in the entry list guestimates

Where's the entry list, the opening race is almost here... it's weird for me to be more excited about this series than the other championships - on boring circuit like Shanghai on top of that - but here we are. I wanna see the P2 mixing

Deleted · 13 Nov 2019, 23:16 (Ref:3940495)

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/1...ns-series.html
The LMP2 entry will be the sole Algarve Pro Racing entry this season in Asia after plans to add a Ligier Judd to the LMP2 Am entry fell late in the day, the team working hard at the post-ELMS Portimao test to secure a replacement deal but proving unable to do so in the time available.

Also the Dallaras seem to now have shrunken to lowest on DSC's so-far confirmed (whatever that means) entry list on the spec car side of P2, while few months ago there were quite a few in contention
4x Oak
2x Oreca
1x Dallara

Deleted · 16 Nov 2019, 16:28 (Ref:3940945)

http://gallery.mailchimp.com/4e671b5..._13.Nov.19.pdf

Full season:
7x LMP2-2017
4x LMP2-PRE-2017
6x LMP3
9x GT3

Stupidly it does not list the engines for all P2-AM but sadly it is confirmed to be all Nissan now that the Judd-powered deals seem to have fallen (for full season at least)

All in all it is somewhat disappointing with the promise there had been of more Dallaras for 2017 class and more variety for pre-2017, but I guess it's still somewhat interesting with the two P2 classes. At least it's not just single boring Oreca spec class like in the ELMS and WEC

With GT300 team in LMP2 & bunch in GT3, yet no Japanese round is a disgrace though

Finally we have a comedy bit to lighten the mood:
"-- The Aurus 01 joins the list of chassis in the LMP2 class with Ligier, ORECA and Dallara."
https://www.lemans.org/en/news/asian...0-season/53062

Coach Ep · 16 Nov 2019, 18:51 (Ref:3940958)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiana

With GT300 team in LMP2 & bunch in GT3, yet no Japanese round is a disgrace though

Agreed, Japan is the only country in Asia with an impressive pedigree of SC+GT racing - it should have at least 2 races in the series. Weather might be a factor though.

Deleted · 16 Nov 2019, 19:35 (Ref:3940965)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Agreed, Japan is the only country in Asia with an impressive pedigree of SC+GT racing - it should have at least 2 races in the series. Weather might be a factor though.

Well having this series during the winter was their idea, there's no "actual" reason why it needs to (other than most of the teams are from Europe trying to get LM invites during off season). But it's just a matter of choices

Tourer · 16 Nov 2019, 22:39 (Ref:3941000)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juntos

LMP3 Australia was an expected fiasco. LMP3 is not a national series material.

LMP3 Australia is going ahead in 2020 - I guess we'll know around this time next year if it has delivered.

Deleted · 22 Nov 2019, 11:17 (Ref:3942115)

Dramas for the NASCAR team have already begun

As of Friday morning, 24 of the 26 cars were on site, the missing pair the Rick Ware Racing Ligiers for LMP2 AM, their container one of several delayed en route to Shanghai.

At present, it is touch and go as to whether the container, (which is understood to have docked at Shanghai) will be released and delivered in time. That’s particularly tough as the team drivers have arrived at the circuit, Cody Ware and Mark Kvamme being as patient as any driver could be at this point of proceedings.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/1...ock-notes.html

Deleted · 23 Nov 2019, 13:02 (Ref:3942325)

Interesting quali order, Oak-Dallara-Oreca-Oak-Oreca-Oak-Oak, you don't see that anywhere else anymore. I think the Carlin Dallara might be a real contender tomorrow, for the first time so far. Then in the older cars the "pole sitting" Oreca 05 was 4,5 seconds off from overall pace but still 3 clear of LMP3

I'm not sure how the RW Onroaks are being allowed to race tomorrow when they've not competed any laps in testing or FP or Q, and there is no warm-up, but hey let em be there

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