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Old 26 Oct 2006, 10:17 (Ref:1749876)   #166
old man
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old man should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridold man should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridold man should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Question to all you experts:

I am aware that the LM 24 is always oversubscribed, hence the success of the various races that have an entry as the prize. Suppose the race were just run for LMP1 and 2, leave the GTs out of it as they have the SPA 24, would the ACO get enough takers to give them a full grid?

Do they ever publish the full list of applications for an entry or the actual entry fee(s)
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Old 26 Oct 2006, 11:12 (Ref:1749932)   #167
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Originally Posted by old man
Question to all you experts:

I am aware that the LM 24 is always oversubscribed, hence the success of the various races that have an entry as the prize. Suppose the race were just run for LMP1 and 2, leave the GTs out of it as they have the SPA 24, would the ACO get enough takers to give them a full grid?

Do they ever publish the full list of applications for an entry or the actual entry fee(s)

There would be something of a struggle for a full grid of LMPs and I hope it doesn't take that route - There is sometimes info available about the number of applications in each class but a full entry list has seldom if ever been made available
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Old 26 Oct 2006, 11:32 (Ref:1749953)   #168
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AU N EGL should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAU N EGL should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin
There would be something of a struggle for a full grid of LMPs and I hope it doesn't take that route - There is sometimes info available about the number of applications in each class but a full entry list has seldom if ever been made available
There is a list of entries with alternates that is published. I wonder how many more teams actully apply to the event?
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Old 26 Oct 2006, 17:01 (Ref:1750218)   #169
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JAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by old man
Question to all you experts:

I am aware that the LM 24 is always oversubscribed, hence the success of the various races that have an entry as the prize. Suppose the race were just run for LMP1 and 2, leave the GTs out of it as they have the SPA 24, would the ACO get enough takers to give them a full grid?

Do they ever publish the full list of applications for an entry or the actual entry fee(s)
In an ideal world I, and I believe the ACO, would like an all prototype field, but lessons have been learned from 91/92.

The modern prototype (3.5l Group C onwards) are very expensive to buy and run so we couldn't rely on 15-20 'filler' cars as they did with the 962/Spice (which were also competitive) back in the day.

It's preferable to have quality GT1 and GT2 entrants than a dozen old SR2 Lolas and Pilbeams.
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Old 26 Oct 2006, 17:50 (Ref:1750273)   #170
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I like things as they are at the moment. One of the beauties of the current four class system is that there is almost always a significant battle for position going on in one of the classes. It really is four races in one, hard to follow trackside, but immensely entertaining if you can keep up with what's happening.



(Or is that five races in one for next year? )
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Old 26 Oct 2006, 18:35 (Ref:1750312)   #171
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I love 04s has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Although I am very pro going all protos, cant help but feel there would be an element missing without the GTs. Have to say some of the most entertaining racing happens with the LMPs weaving through traffic - cant imagine it being as exciting without them.........
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Old 26 Oct 2006, 21:39 (Ref:1750505)   #172
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My knee jerk reaction was to say I'd like to see an all prototype field thinking about it briefly comes up with a very different answer.

First off, having different battles that really mean something makes the race come alive. Seeing LNT slowly but surely overhaul Seikel kept me fascinated even although the race for overall P1 was long since done and dusted. Equally at Donington sitting under the Spitfire and watching Aston Martin sneak it past Corvette at the death counts as incredibly memorable.

Second, diversity counts. Okay prototypes haven't yet been polluted in the way single seaters have with identikit chassis, but a good mix of the exotic, the familiar, the wierd, and the wonderful is what gives sportscar racing its richness.

Third, impartial observers like watching cars they recognise. More Ferraris, Aston Martins, Porsches, and TVRs will keep this valuable constituency happy.

And finally, echoing JAG, in one word - 1992. Eurosport's commentary that year, desperately hyping it on the warm up lap claiming it was a small field "but a quality one" teetered on the brink of having me chuck a shoe at the television.
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Old 26 Oct 2006, 22:47 (Ref:1750541)   #173
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SALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
As most of you know I am a big GT fan and whilst I dont like the LMP's as much I still think they also have their place at the big race. Getting rid of GT cars would just be plain wrong in my mind, sure they arent as fast as some of the LMP's but thats mainly down to the rules rather than the cars ability. Give them 16 inch wide tyres like the LMP1's use and a slightly bigger restrictor and the differnce between the 2 classes would be minimal.

Part of what makes sportscar racing special to me as has already been mentioned is its diversety, what other form of motorsport is there that has 4 classes of cars racing at the same time on the same track? None that I know of. It is fun watching the differnt classes of cars trip each other up as they battle for class postition. Yes normally it is the LMP's going past the GT cars but how often have we seen in recent years GT1 cars overtaking LMP2 class cars on the mulsanne and indeed outpacing them at Le Mans?

Things are good as they are at the moment, manufacturers are coming back into sportscar racing and the manufacturers that are already here look like they are staying. As they saying goes, if it aint broke, dont fix it.
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Old 27 Oct 2006, 10:06 (Ref:1750889)   #174
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OK, that started a nice little debate, I tend to agree that the diverse field is good and allows more teams to sample the great race. Driver qualifications sometimes leave a little to be desired but again 'twas ever thus I suspect.

Nobody answered my question on entry fees, do they all pay the same? I believe it is 30.000 Euro with a 5k non returnable deposit with entry, balance when you get a slot, is that correct? Fuel is supplied by the organisers, is that paid for in the entry fee or an added extra?

My point is that GT entreis are vital to the continued success of the great race and so deserve the same attention from all comentators and the press and MC makes a great point on dsc about the way GT entries are treated by the "Worlds Leading Motorsport Magazine" and others. It is correct to say 4 races in one and the mix adds considerably to the skill required to survive and the spectator interest but why should sponsors and drivers pay the same money for no recognition of their efforts? Quite correct that the public identify with cars they can recognise but do we really need GT1 and 2? Would it not be great to see what unrestricted GT2 cars could do against the AM and GM cars?

There again, if a certain configuration in an otherwise equal spec gives a team an advantage in reducing the pit stops why should we penalise them? The concern today is on carbon emissions and motor racing must be seen to be part of that battle or we will find it being the subject of negative legislation. Heaven forbid that we have an economy run but perhaps we should think of something along these lines, a diesel 997 RSR perhaps?
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Old 27 Oct 2006, 16:08 (Ref:1751243)   #175
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I could probably put an argument together that in these global warming times, most of the pollution at motor sport events comes from the spectators' cars (getting there) not the race cars - at least it should do!
So logically fewer, longer events creates less pollution than more shorter ones - so the LMS (and Le Mans) fits that argument.
Longer races then please - ie. fewer, bigger events (you other series).
Sorry - that was a bit off topic.
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Old 27 Oct 2006, 16:19 (Ref:1751250)   #176
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I could probably put an argument together that in these global warming times, most of the pollution at motor sport events comes from the spectators' cars (getting there) not the race cars - at least it should do!
So logically fewer, longer events creates less pollution than more shorter ones - so the LMS (and Le Mans) fits that argument.
Longer races then please - ie. fewer, bigger events (you other series).
Sorry - that was a bit off topic.
Good thinking that man, so football uses more fuel that Motor Racing, I like it!
My only thought was that they would use us to set an example so perhaps we should beat them to the draw and show benefits earned by running longer on the same tank of fuel, could you calculate something like the callorific value of 100 litres you engineers?
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Old 27 Oct 2006, 17:05 (Ref:1751301)   #177
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Originally Posted by old man
Good thinking that man, so football uses more fuel that Motor Racing, I like it!
My only thought was that they would use us to set an example so perhaps we should beat them to the draw and show benefits earned by running longer on the same tank of fuel, could you calculate something like the callorific value of 100 litres you engineers?
You run into the problem here that fuel mileage and low emissions, on gasoline, are the antithesis of each other.
Centers of automobile prod. spend billions trying to deal with this; to cripple automobile raciing which is already plenty short on teams (at least in the US compared to even 15 years ago) will further deplete the field of regional, or occasional racers who are sadly lacking now.

I go to races to see the bestest, baddest, and orneriest; I read tech. articles for science.
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Old 27 Oct 2006, 17:17 (Ref:1751319)   #178
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My only thought was that they would use us to set an example so perhaps we should beat them to the draw and show benefits earned by running longer on the same tank of fuel, could you calculate something like the callorific value of 100 litres you engineers?
Except that if you have a fast car with a good consumption rate you will be deemed to have an unfair advantage and will be duly penalized. Technical achievement is an outrage you know!
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