[BTCC] BTCC 2020 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by thetool

I don't think the damage will actually be that severe. They'd have probably got it out again for the next race had it happened in race one or two. A fair amount of panel damage sure, but the chassis doesn't take any heavy hits, glances off the barrier and then a relatively gentle roll.

Sorry to disagree, but I'd say that was anything BUT a relatively gentle roll!

[S griffin]

Butcher's title hopes after the incident with Sutton in R2 and then the big one in R3 have been dented, but they are not over. He just needs a really good weekend at Croft. So I'm sure Motorbase will be doing everything they can to get him out and so I wouldn't be surprised to see him take Neate's car. I'm sure even Andy would understand that decision

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by thetool

I don't think the damage will actually be that severe. They'd have probably got it out again for the next race had it happened in race one or two. A fair amount of panel damage sure, but the chassis doesn't take any heavy hits, glances off the barrier and then a relatively gentle roll.

Who are you , The Monty Python Black knight! "Its just a flesh wound"

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Sorry to disagree, but I'd say that was anything BUT a relatively gentle roll!

That was my initial thought as well, but having looked back at the footage the roll was relatively gentle. It was the impact with the barrier that did most of the damage.

Looks to be mostly front/rear bodywork damage, which should be largely sheet metal damage and the replicable front subframe. The centre section of the car didn't take any really big hits during the roll. As long as the impact with the barrier didn't twist the chassis then it should be ok.

[SR18]

Will there be a 3rd BMW at Croft?

[porsche962fan]

here is a theoretical question

let' s say they get Rob Austin in a 3rd WSR car, would he carry late entry ballast ?? as he already raced this season

[S griffin]

Still no further news on the 3rd Beemer. I can imagine them running one to help Colin’s title chances, which would mean running the car b4 the final meeting so they wouldn’t have the extra ballest at the last meeting

Not sure about what would happen if Rob Austin took the seat, that is less clear cut

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

here is a theoretical question

let' s say they get Rob Austin in a 3rd WSR car, would he carry late entry ballast ?? as he already raced this season

It would be a slightly different scenario, because he would be seen as 'substituting' for Jordan. I think this has been confused so far because Bushell, Austin and Edwards have been referred to in commentary as carrying 'late entry' ballast, when in fact it has been 'substitute driver' ballast.

In the situation you describe, it doesn't matter what he has done previously - it is all about the entry that he takes on. Normally, a substitute driver takes on the success ballast of the driver they substitute for - or up to 45kgs. Previous participation this season is not a factor.

Conversely, if another team (e.g. Halfords Yuasa) were to expand their entry to a 3-car effort, then assuming they are given a TBL, they would be a late entry. In that circumstance, the car carries up to 60kg throughout the first meeting it participates in, 42kg in the second meeting and 30kg in the third meeting. Success ballast is added to the late entry ballast, up to a limit of 60kg.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

here is a theoretical question

let' s say they get Rob Austin in a 3rd WSR car, would he carry late entry ballast ?? as he already raced this season

It would be classed as an additional late entry, meaning the car will get 60kg all meeting, and 42/30kg in subsequent meetings.

Previously he was replacement driver for an existing entry so got 45kg for qualifying / race 1 only.

It's all hypothetical anyhow, as he is unlikely to be WSR's new driver.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

It would be classed as an additional late entry, meaning the car will get 60kg all meeting, and 42/30kg in subsequent meetings.

Would it be a late entry, as the car was already entered for Jordan?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Would it be a late entry, as the car was already entered for Jordan?

Good question. PMR did say that they would still run one car on an occasional basis whereas WSR said they would only run 2 cars, so the single PMR car feels more like an existing entry and the extra WSR car feels more like an extra entry. But in all honesty, who know.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Good question. PMR did say that they would still run one car on an occasional basis whereas WSR said they would only run 2 cars, so the single PMR car feels more like an existing entry and the extra WSR car feels more like an extra entry. But in all honesty, who know.

True. I'm far from certain what cars would be considered as entered. I had assumed that the entry list from Media Day would be the full list.

[Alfisti]

Has something passed me by or is their some substance behind these third WSR car rumours?

Or is it up there with factory backed Kia entries into BTCC?

[Petoli]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

True. I'm far from certain what cars would be considered as entered. I had assumed that the entry list from Media Day would be the full list.

The only thing the regulations say about late entry ballast

Cars registered for the Championship after February 28th, 2020, and/or those cars that miss one
or more Championship Meetings may carry a Late Entry Ballast of up to 60kgs at the first
Championship Meeting they compete in/return to,

As the 3rd 3 Series hasnt entered a round yet id imagine they would have to carry the ballast.

Back in 2007, The official entry list released on media day had a 3rd factory SEAT, #22 That car only appeared at the season finale driven by Tom Coronel who still had to carry 45Kg of Ballast

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Petoli

The only thing the regulations say about late entry ballast

Cars registered for the Championship after February 28th, 2020, and/or those cars that miss one
or more Championship Meetings may carry a Late Entry Ballast of up to 60kgs at the first
Championship Meeting they compete in/return to,

As the 3rd 3 Series hasnt entered a round yet id imagine they would have to carry the ballast.

Back in 2007, The official entry list released on media day had a 3rd factory SEAT, #22 That car only appeared at the season finale driven by Tom Coronel who still had to carry 45Kg of Ballast

The PMR Astra didn't appear until Bushell drove it in round 7 - at which he carried 45kg.
Austin then also carried 45kg for round 13, as well as Edwards for round 16.
Onslow-Cole also carried 45kg for round 13.
This 45kg applied to all of those drivers mentioned was in accordance with regulation 1.11.1.c.iii).:
Any driver, including substitute drivers, who takes-over the registered car of another driver will also take over the success-weight ballast (1.11.1.c) of the departing driver up to that time, or a maximum of 45kg, at the sole discretion of the Administrator.

In summary:
Enter an additional car (late entry) - 60kg for one meeting, 42kg for the second and 30kg for the third.
Change the driver in a car already entered (substitute driver) - 45kg up to and including the first race the driver competes in.

**all at the discretion of the Administrator**

[porsche962fan]

what about the scenario, that Jelley is recruited by WSR to drive the 3rd 3 series as rear gunner ?

driver is regular and it would be just car change from the old 125 to the new 3 series


would this scheme work with no ballast ?

[Jiiiiiiim]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Has something passed me by or is their some substance behind these third WSR car rumours?

Or is it up there with factory backed Kia entries into BTCC?

Dick Bennett’s did mention in a TCT article that they were looking to field the 3rd car possibly from Thruxton onwards, but only if they could find a driver who’d do the rest of this year & next season if I recall correctly!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

what about the scenario, that Jelley is recruited by WSR to drive the 3rd 3 series as rear gunner ?

driver is regular and it would be just car change from the old 125 to the new 3 series


would this scheme work with no ballast ?

You seem to be reaching now, but I'll entertain it.

The scenario you propose would require Parker Racing to run the 3rd WSR 3-series effectively on loan to them. Jelley's sponsors would still look to have their name on the car, and it would be nigh-on impossible to disguise Jelley's actions as being in support of WSR.
For a team to change cars during a season, the Administrator has to agree, and I'm pretty certain they'd see through an attempt by WSR to get around the ballast regulations at the first hurdle.

And would it really be worth all of that effort from WSR to avoid carrying 45kg for one race, when the car carries weight well anyway?

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

And would it really be worth all of that effort from WSR to avoid carrying 45kg for one race, when the car carries weight well anyway?

I was refering to circumvent the " Enter an additional car (late entry) - 60kg for one meeting, 42kg for the second and 30kg for the third." so in that case it would be worth the effort for WSR

Dick is on the verge to write all time hisotry if Colin gets that 5 titles AND 3 titles in a row all with his WSR team but you see they need every trick in the book and outside of it against Sutton

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

I was refering to circumvent the " Enter an additional car (late entry) - 60kg for one meeting, 42kg for the second and 30kg for the third." so in that case it would be worth the effort for WSR

Dynamics might need to circumvent that rule.
WSR have already entered 3 cars for 2020.

[porsche962fan]

but that's the issue is the Jordan entry still valid ?


For Dynamics it would be even easier, supposedly Cooky might not have the budget to finish season (and probbaly no motivation after the disasters) so tDynamics could finance that BTC seat for Shedden as rear gunner for Cammish

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

I was refering to circumvent the " Enter an additional car (late entry) - 60kg for one meeting, 42kg for the second and 30kg for the third." so in that case it would be worth the effort for WSR

Dick is on the verge to write all time hisotry if Colin gets that 5 titles AND 3 titles in a row all with his WSR team but you see they need every trick in the book and outside of it against Sutton

Everything is at the administrators discretion though. He could accept a change of car but put extra ballast in it just because he wants to. Look how Reid and Thompson got shafted in the past with the administrator's ballast when they entered as ringers.

[Petoli]

"Cars registered for the Championship after February 28th, 2020, and/or those cars that miss one
or more Championship Meetings may carry a Late Entry Ballast of up to 60kgs at the first
Championship Meeting they compete in/return to"

To me that would imply that if you enter a car in the championship but don't race it until say round 9 as it has missed 8 previous events it would have to carry 60KGs of ballast. at that event
Is that not what it means,

If a team was to register say Adam Smith driving car number 48 before the deadline, but the car and driver doesn't appear until the season finale it would be ballast free.

Or if it is at the discretion of the administrator could they say, that's not really the spirit of the rules you have to carry ballast

[S griffin]

I've seen enough on here to suggest that, unless they somehow run AJ in the car, the third Beemer would have to carry 45kg of ballast

I think though that the replacement ballast has only come in in recent seasons. Before that it was late season ballast only. A good example is that IIRC in 2007 Alain Menu had to carry the ballast when he competed in the last round at Thruxton in the third Vectra, whereas Coronel did not because SEAT had actually registered a third car before the season started

[Pickles]

Is it just a coincidence that we've heard nothing from Michael Caine for months and then as soon as everyone is calling for Andy Neate's head on a stick, this gets posted by his social media bods:

https://www.facebook.com/15760697799...2390071517867/

🤔