[Team] Aston Martin Racing in 2023. One of the cars still has Alonso.

[S griffin]

Better enjoy seeing them while we still can, they ain't getting any younger, yet they are still as competitive as ever

[chunterer]

I applaud this Vettel optimism but he's had 2, maybe 3 decent races this year?

He's hardly put Stroll away on pace either?

Reckon younger and more eager talent would get more out of that package. 2 water carriers in situ.

[S griffin]

He's still getting enough decent results and the team are no doubt benefitting from his experience

[steve_r]

I see that Martin Whitmarsh has been signed by Aston Martin as CEO. Nice to see him back - he always comes across as a decent bloke I think.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by steve_r

I see that Martin Whitmarsh has been signed by Aston Martin as CEO. Nice to see him back - he always comes across as a decent bloke I think.

'Aston Martin F1 CEO and team principal Otmar Szafnauer will report to Whitmarsh, with both men answerable to Aston Martin owner Lawrence Stroll.'

I assume that the CEO of the F1 team reporting to the CEO of Aston Martin Performance Technologies, who then reports to the Aston Martin owner still makes Aston Martin a sponsor?

'Aston Martin Performance Technologies will be similar in nature to equivalent, well-established companies at McLaren and Williams'

[chillibowl]

so basically Mclaren finally win a race and Aston 'Martin' Whitmarsh gets released from whatever sub basement Woking dungeon Ron had him locked up in?

coincidence?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

'Aston Martin F1 CEO and team principal Otmar Szafnauer will report to Whitmarsh, with both men answerable to Aston Martin owner Lawrence Stroll.'

I assume that the CEO of the F1 team reporting to the CEO of Aston Martin Performance Technologies, who then reports to the Aston Martin owner still makes Aston Martin a sponsor?

'Aston Martin Performance Technologies will be similar in nature to equivalent, well-established companies at McLaren and Williams'

Well, Aston Martin still has no ownership of the F1 team has it?

Mind you, Lawrence Stroll/Strulovich is not the “owner” of Aston Martin either.

[Greem]

Following the trail at Companies House:

AMR GP LIMITED
Directors:
ROSS, Leslie Andreen
CHOU, Silas Kei Fong
STRULOVITCH, Lawrence Sheldon

Persons with significant control:
Amr Gp Holdings Limited

So, to the latter...

AMR GP HOLDINGS LIMITED previously RACING POINT UK HOLDINGS LIMITED
Directors:
ROSS, Leslie Andreen
CHOU, Silas Kei Fong
STRULOVITCH, Lawrence Sheldon

Persons with significant control:
Jonathan Andrew Dudman (>75% shares & voting rights)
Mr Lawrence Sheldon Strulovitch (significant influence or control)

In the last filed accounts (Dec 20), the final note states:

30. Controlling party
The immediate parent company is Racing Point Limited, a company incorporated in the British Virgin Islands.
<snip>
The ultimate controlling party is considered to be Lawrence Strulovitch.

Looks a lot like Stroll Senior is the owner to me, albeit the BVI don't make their records public!

[Richard C]

I am not sure if this an "under the rock" type of thing, but I was totally unaware of the Strulovitch vs. Stroll thing. I guess you learn something new every day!

Richard

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Well, Aston Martin still has no ownership of the F1 team has it?

Mind you, Lawrence Stroll/Strulovich is not the “owner” of Aston Martin either.

When you're offered an out, STOP DIGGING

[S griffin]

I’m glad Mr Whitmarsh is back, I feel he got a bit of a rough end of the stick with his exit from McLaren. Certainly he did quite well in his limited time there IMHO. No doubt he can benefit the team and shows Stroll Sr is getting the right people on board

[Adam43]

I’m going to go out on a limb here, I think the Aston Martin F1 team is a works team.

Pleased for Martin Whitmarsh.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I’m going to go out on a limb here, I think the Aston Martin F1 team is a works team.

Pleased for Martin Whitmarsh.

I admire your position Adam.
Ditto for me.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Greem

Following the trail at Companies House:

AMR GP LIMITED
Directors:
ROSS, Leslie Andreen
CHOU, Silas Kei Fong
STRULOVITCH, Lawrence Sheldon

Persons with significant control:
Amr Gp Holdings Limited

So, to the latter...

AMR GP HOLDINGS LIMITED previously RACING POINT UK HOLDINGS LIMITED
Directors:
ROSS, Leslie Andreen
CHOU, Silas Kei Fong
STRULOVITCH, Lawrence Sheldon

Persons with significant control:
Jonathan Andrew Dudman (>75% shares & voting rights)
Mr Lawrence Sheldon Strulovitch (significant influence or control)

In the last filed accounts (Dec 20), the final note states:



Looks a lot like Stroll Senior is the owner to me, albeit the BVI don't make their records public!

Good research but the claim I was rebutting is that Lawrence is the owner of “Aston Martin.” He isn’t, he owns 17% IIRC. It’s a publicly listed corporation.

From your research, it still looks like AM has no direct ownership stake of the F1 team. The old Racing Point company has simply been renamed, and remains a privately-held company.

Not really sure why some want to keep trying to score smartass points. Someone owning all or part of different companies doesn’t legally link the two companies, which is pretty basic stuff really.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Not really sure why some want to keep trying to score smartass points. Someone owning all or part of different companies doesn’t legally link the two companies, which is pretty basic stuff really.

I don't think it's a 'scoring points' situation, but a conversation surrounding points made such as:

Originally Posted by peebee2

Still remains that Aston Mart?*n plc is nothing more than a team sponsor.

Which many here seem to feel is not accurate, and that Aston Martin Lagonda (through many links) are a lot more than just a team sponsor.

Previous reports such as:
'Stroll also brought his own Formula 1 team to Aston Martin'
'Aston Martin currently sponsors the Red Bull F1 team – and will continue to do so in 2020 – but has thereafter agreed a 10-year deal under which Racing Point will become the official works Aston squad.'

and the recent announcement of the formation of Aston Martin Performance Technologies indicate that a lot more than just sponsorship going on.

Originally Posted by peebee2

[Lawrence] owns 17% IIRC. It’s a publicly listed corporation.

It's actually 25%, as of March this year - making him by far the majority shareholder ahead of Adeem at less than 7%.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Not really sure why some want to keep trying to score smartass points.

It’s like yellows. Smartass points bread smartass points. Someone somewhere must have made the first smartass point.

It’s a good example of something that has a simplistic technically correct answer, but the actual reality has a different and more interesting understanding.

[Richard C]

I demand a full examination of ownership of all of the teams, their sponsors (especially the title or naming rights sponsors). We also need to establish rules that we can use to define things like "owner", "controls", "factor/works team". We also need to fully understand the historical nature of each team, where they originated from, what percentage of staff remains from prior iterations, what locations they have occupied. I reserve the right to add additional requirements at a later date if the answers to these questions doesn't settle the larger question of how we should refer to these "teams" in this forum.

Note: Smartass points plus one for me! (Or "infinity plus one" if we want to play games with our smartass point attribution. Maybe we need rules for the smartass game as well)



Richard

[steve_r]

It could have been even worse. Instead of doing the deal with Aston Martin, they could instead have brought the Lotus name back to F1 again.

Not the real Lotus of course, and not the Toleman Benetton Renault Alpine Lotus, or the even the Caterham Lotus, but instead the Force India Racing Point Spyker Jordan Lotus. Good luck looking that up on companies house.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by steve_r

It could have been even worse. Instead of doing the deal with Aston Martin, they could instead have brought the Lotus name back to F1 again.

Not the real Lotus of course, and not the Toleman Benetton Renault Alpine Lotus, or the even the Caterham Lotus, but instead the Force India Racing Point Spyker Jordan Lotus. Good luck looking that up on companies house.

Its all Colin Chapmans fault.
And a bit Eddie Jordan

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by steve_r

It could have been even worse. Instead of doing the deal with Aston Martin, they could instead have brought the Lotus name back to F1 again.

Not the real Lotus of course, and not the Toleman Benetton Renault Alpine Lotus, or the even the Caterham Lotus, but instead the Force India Racing Point Spyker Jordan Lotus. Good luck looking that up on companies house.

23 Sep 2014:

'It is no secret that the Enstone-based team -- owned by Genii’s Gerard Lopez -- is not in the best financial state. Additionally, the performance of the Lotus E22 has been quite disappointing so far this year.

German magazine Sport Bild wrote Tuesday that Flavio Briatore (who still manages the career of Fernando Alonso) got in touch with teams Red Bull Racing and Mercedes AMG about a possible new home for Alonso.

The magazine added that Briatore is trying to convince Canadian billionaire, Lawrence Stroll, to invest in Lotus.

Briatore would then take Alonso to Lotus in order to revamp the image of the team. Keep in mind that Lotus will have Mercedes-Benz power units starting in 2015.'

[Greem]

There are times when I add information to a thread, and then wish I hadn't bothered.

Quite frankly I don't care one jot who owns what. I was just adding to what is actually known, rather than speculated.

Don't worry, I won't bother in future.

[Richard C]

Greem, I thought it was informative. Just to let you know. My smartass comments were just playing off what Adam said and not pointing at you. It's just more of the overall absurdity of how "serious" this discussion has become. I still think it's an interesting discussion.

Richard

[Adam43]

It is interesting. Thank you.

At least for me most smartass comments have been having fun at how seriously is was taken.

[Mike Harte]

Graeme, I would like to believe that most of us here really appreciate the trouble you have taken. Don't let the ............ grind you down!

[chillibowl]

Right! The details matter so keep them coming. Cant be anoraks otherwise.