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Old 25 Aug 2020, 10:29 (Ref:3997814)   #51
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Originally Posted by RS67 View Post
BTC complaining about other cars running smoothed out front bumpers and stickers to replicate the depression where the road car would have fog lamps. BTC are forced to run the bumpers as per Dynamics and the depression is acting as an air brake and slowing the cars.
Do you have a link to the actual quotes from BTC?
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 10:41 (Ref:3997818)   #52
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Do you have a link to the actual quotes from BTC?
I heard it from a team member whose car was being brought into question.
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 10:48 (Ref:3997819)   #53
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Originally Posted by RS67 View Post
I heard it from a team member whose car was being brought into question.
OK - thanks.
I'm making an assumption here then, that the team member was part of Motorbase, and that they are under the impression someone connected to BTC was questioning the legality of the Focus?

If so that leaves a lot of grey areas. Was it someone at BTC who understands the technical aspects querying the legality? Or was it similar to the previous Matt Neal comments about building a RWD Civic?

If it was a genuine query over legality from a technical perspective, then I would expect it only right to ask questions if you think something might not be fully compliant on a rival team's car.
If it was just a non-technical based comment about a rival car, it's more likely to be an off the cuff comment after one of their own cars has just failed a ride-height check.
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 10:55 (Ref:3997820)   #54
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
The decision to have them blanked, or part of the brake cooling, is made at the time of homologation.
The car was homologated with the apertures open, so that is how they must remain.

If you compare that with the Focus - you can see blanked off fog light apertures, but other apertures added to the front end. Dynamics have chosen to use the existing apertures, rather than add them elsewhere on the front of the car:




In that last picture, (link here) look at the aperture closest to Cammish. You can see the ducting behind that feeds the airflow.

Which makes me wonder why BTC are upset about them being open? The airflow is being used; if they were closed another aperture would be required on the front end somewhere else. It would be interesting to see the actual comments from BTC.....
The Focus air ducts sit in an existing aperture shared with the road car. The only difference is the race car has additional facias added to hold the ducting in place.
There are always trade offs in aerodynamics and cooling.
Perhaps Dynamics felt the cooling ducts were better positioned towards the outer edges as when close behind another car a little movement to either side will get cooler air as opposed to ducting that is more onboard, effectively starving the air intakes of cooler air.
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 12:19 (Ref:3997841)   #55
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Originally Posted by RS67 View Post
Fairly sure the Toyota Avensis had depressions in its front bumper smoothed out. Motorbase did the same with the the previous Focus ST. Was it illegal in the case of the Chevy because they never got it signed off?
You'd assume that it was signed off as they didn't change them all year but part of the ruling is that the bumper has to retain the same basic shape (swage lines etc) as the original. Compare the Norlin Chevy bumper to the PMR one from the year before...
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 13:29 (Ref:3997859)   #56
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
OK - thanks.
I'm making an assumption here then, that the team member was part of Motorbase, and that they are under the impression someone connected to BTC was questioning the legality of the Focus?

If so that leaves a lot of grey areas. Was it someone at BTC who understands the technical aspects querying the legality? Or was it similar to the previous Matt Neal comments about building a RWD Civic?

If it was a genuine query over legality from a technical perspective, then I would expect it only right to ask questions if you think something might not be fully compliant on a rival team's car.
If it was just a non-technical based comment about a rival car, it's more likely to be an off the cuff comment after one of their own cars has just failed a ride-height check.
The question was raised to TOCA prior to last weekend.
I see it more a case of a certain driver who left Motorbase for what he thought would be a quicker and more competitive car and now finds himself in a car that isn't proving to be as quick as Motorbase's new cars.
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 17:16 (Ref:3997906)   #57
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porsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
it's safe to say that if Cammish and Tingram have another mierable meeting they are our of title picture , already a near 50 points deficit
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 18:06 (Ref:3997917)   #58
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
The decision to have them blanked, or part of the brake cooling, is made at the time of homologation.
The car was homologated with the apertures open, so that is how they must remain.

If you compare that with the Focus - you can see blanked off fog light apertures, but other apertures added to the front end. Dynamics have chosen to use the existing apertures, rather than add them elsewhere on the front of the car:

so i know i'm looking at the right thing (not familiar with the road car), you mean the black four sided shapes with the sponsors logo below each headlight that have strangely uniform shadows underneath?

mmmm...
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 18:55 (Ref:3997922)   #59
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Originally Posted by bella View Post
so i know i'm looking at the right thing (not familiar with the road car), you mean the black four sided shapes with the sponsors logo below each headlight that have strangely uniform shadows underneath?

mmmm...
Road car:


to Race car:


Fog lights are removed as per regulations and resultant aperture blanked off.
Lower mesh panel replaced with blanking panel and air ducts routed to new apertures.
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 19:45 (Ref:3997930)   #60
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i get it now, thanks. obviously people think there’s a good reason to moan about it, but based on what you’ve just posted it looks like they’ve just made good use of a simple front end?
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 20:39 (Ref:3997937)   #61
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Originally Posted by Jon411 View Post
David Addison definitely said that (about being out of Oulton by midday tomorrow) earlier on in the day.

I'm sure Turks said he was off home after race 3 but WSR were staying on at Oulton to work on the cars before heading to Knockhill in time for Thursday
WSR are definitely moving out of Oulton on Thursday morning. Don't know about the other teams.

Still haven't seen any of this weekends action. I had a big drama of my own minutes after Carl Boardley went to say hello to the orange army. Hopefully some good stuff for me to see...
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Old 26 Aug 2020, 06:49 (Ref:3997991)   #62
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i get it now, thanks. obviously people think there’s a good reason to moan about it, but based on what you’ve just posted it looks like they’ve just made good use of a simple front end?
Having brake cooling ducts towards the extremities of the car seems to be a philosophy that Dynamics have adopted from 2017.
From 2012 to 2016, the FK2 front end had all air routed from more centrally:

In 2017, new apertures appeared towards the outer edge, and were also seen on the BTC cars:

Dynamics have continued this on the FK8, and still run their FK2s with the same setup in TCT.

The cars which were run by Eurotech never adopted this change, and retained the original front bumper setup. This is still present on the MB cars in 2020:


From what I can tell, the only other car on the grid that has adopted this option for airflow is the Hyundai. Which makes me wonder if Dynamics should be looking at different ways to manage the air at the front end - or will this have other impacts such as their setup for brakes etc. that means they have to stick to this approach?
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Old 26 Aug 2020, 09:08 (Ref:3998006)   #63
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The Dynamics cars have always been good on the brakes though - so maybe their setup differs to supplement that focus.
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Old 26 Aug 2020, 09:55 (Ref:3998024)   #64
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The Dynamics cars have always been good on the brakes though - so maybe their setup differs to supplement that focus.
True - that did come into my thinking.

They have been referred to as running hotter than other teams, in fact the following was mentioned last season: 'Glowing brakes on a Dynamics Honda is pretty standard. They're the only team which give the car new discs and pads for every race. Probably one of the few teams that can afford it. So they run the brakes extremely aggressive at all times.'

So perhaps they are deliberately aggressive on their brake setup, and accept a trade off in terms of airflow to provide more cooling?
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Old 27 Aug 2020, 10:04 (Ref:3998252)   #65
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Pickles should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridPickles should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hamilton and Brown to both miss Knockhill:

http://www.btcc.net/2020/08/27/team-...iss-knockhill/
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Old 27 Aug 2020, 10:04 (Ref:3998253)   #66
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http://www.btcc.net/2020/08/27/team-...iss-knockhill/
Hamilton and Brown out of Knockhill

Ollie Brown has hairline rib fracture.
Nic Hamilton's car being repaired.
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Old 27 Aug 2020, 13:53 (Ref:3998296)   #67
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porsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
25 cars grid then , should be at less traffic in practice
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Old 27 Aug 2020, 14:19 (Ref:3998303)   #68
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It was always going to be a tight one to Nic's car repaired. Shame for Brown, must have really taken a pounding. Should hopefully see them both back in September, it's not the end of the world to miss Knockhill. Not the first time the grid has been a bit smaller than usual at Knockhill
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Old 27 Aug 2020, 14:48 (Ref:3998315)   #69
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Craner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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it's not the end of the world to miss Knockhill. Not the first time the grid has been a bit smaller than usual at Knockhill
Does it offer less points than the other meetings? In which case I'd argue that it is a big deal.
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Old 27 Aug 2020, 15:24 (Ref:3998321)   #70
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CarfanLUFC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCarfanLUFC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
No major loss really not to have Hamilton and Brown there and as had been mentioned, free's up a bit of track space for Quali etc

Haven't HARD got a spare CC though? sure they ran 4 last season...
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Old 27 Aug 2020, 15:34 (Ref:3998325)   #71
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No major loss really not to have Hamilton and Brown there and as had been mentioned, free's up a bit of track space for Quali etc

Haven't HARD got a spare CC though? sure they ran 4 last season...
It seems they haven't returned the 4th one to a usable condition, with taking on the running of a BMW:

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RML 131 004/14 was used by Goff last season, but is reported as having extensive damage from R29 of last season.
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4th VW was repaired, however that doesn't mean that it is currently in a usable state. There's a chance it hasn't been touched since they realised Boardley was buying the BMW and that it wouldn't be required. If it's still fully stripped then that's a good few days work to re-assemble even if they were back at team HQ. Trying to do that from the back of the truck is a lot more difficult.
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Old 27 Aug 2020, 15:35 (Ref:3998326)   #72
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porsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
the likes of Jordan is far far greater loss than those 2 for the series
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Old 27 Aug 2020, 15:51 (Ref:3998330)   #73
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the likes of Jordan is far far greater loss than those 2 for the series
Yep i'd agree. As much as it's good to have a healthy car count and I have nothing against Brown or Hamilton, they won't be missed much at Knockhill

Jordan (a champion of course) was a genuine contender for wins and someone who could have challenged and taken points off Turkington.
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Old 27 Aug 2020, 15:53 (Ref:3998331)   #74
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It seems they haven't returned the 4th one to a usable condition, with taking on the running of a BMW:
Spot on, thanks for the info
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Old 27 Aug 2020, 16:04 (Ref:3998335)   #75
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Well i feel sorry that we have lost 2 cars, the fun of BTCC is not always the cars at the front, the cars further down are just as entertaining.
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