"Better than half the excrement they watch in Europe"

[Robert Ryan]

No but when I can show that Category Management is seeking ways to fix the racing, is that not evidence to suggest that the racing is not up to standard ?

Not at all...every organisation worth their salt is doing the same thing.

Ways of overcoming domination, well its competiton isnt it. Go out and try to beat them next weekend

Again how? Do they knobble the dominant cars so as to even the field ; allow faster models(if they exist); allow more freedoms to the cars trying to catch up....what?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Not at all...every organisation worth their salt is doing the same thing.

If it is the best racing in the world, why do they need to fix it ? BTCC also has reverse grid races which is an issue, but they dont shoot there mouth off declaring how good they are all the time.

DTM is doing fine without reverse grids and I look foward to coverage from their 1st round to see how there racing compares.

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Again how? Do they knobble the dominant cars so as to even the field ; allow faster models(if they exist); allow more freedoms to the cars trying to catch up....what?

Development with your package, why do they have to knobble dominant cars all the time. Dont look for handouts. Each manufacturer will allow new models every few years, maybe a chassis freeze for 3 years, like what the IRL does.

Robert I am not claiming to have all the answers, what I am saying is that there should be other options as opposed to control floor plan or siloulette formulas.

[Robert Ryan]

If it is the best racing in the world, why do they need to fix it ?

NASCAR claims they are the best in the World, but they are constantly fiddling with the rules...All racing Organisations "fiddle with rules"

Development with your package, why do they have to knobble dominant cars all the time. Don't look for handouts. Each manufacturer will allow new models every few years, maybe a chassis freeze for 3 years,

So fans of this new series will have to wait 3yrs for some form of adjustment? The IRL is constantly allowing adjustments to their spec formula, so does CCWS. Definitely not a 3 yr wait.

[Robert Ryan]

Robert I am not claiming to have all the answers, what I am saying is that there should be other options as opposed to control floor plan or siloulette formulas.

OK, if I suggest anything I try add the pluses and minuses . Maybe you could have done that with your suggestions for a new Multi-make Touring Car series?

[Robert Ryan]

DRT, otherwise it sounds like "Look I do not have a clue, but it should be changed" which you must agree is a pretty useless suggestion.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Again how? Do they knobble the dominant cars so as to even the field ; allow faster models(if they exist); allow more freedoms to the cars trying to catch up....what?

In all this where is the responsibility of the teams who aren't competitive to do a better job?

[Robert Ryan]

In all this where is the responsibility of the teams who aren't competitive to do a better job?

If the make is uncompetitive(remember it is not a level playing field) how are they going "to do a better job" ?

[racer69]

Shouldn't there also be an onus on the manufacturer to build a better car?

Afterall, why should a poor car be paritied into competitiveness?

For example take this years ARC, Ford has an inferior package to the other works entries, should the Toyota's and Mitsubishi's be slowed down?

[Robert Ryan]

Shouldn't there also be an onus on the manufacturer to build a better car?

Yes but after 2-3 yrs as DRT suggested. I think a few people could be bored silly

For example take this years ARC, Ford has an inferior package to the other works entries, should the Toyota's and Mitsubishi's be slowed down?

Wonder why people are losing interest in the WRC? Then again F1 followed that principle your expousing for the last couple of years with the F1 World Championship. They let the strongest team win and the others catch up. Not a problem with that, MS won several championships for Ferrari that way. I do not know but for some reason people found it boring? Strange that, you think they would have appreciated the total dominance of a superior team and driver.

[Woolley]

This whole debate is worldwide, and not just touring cars. Passing is difficult in just about any category, but the spectator needs to know it's possible. The main things that do that seem to be the opportunity to make a mistake (or for the following driver to pressurise someone into one), or aerodynamics that make it easier for the following driver. Caterhams sports cars (do you have them?) are good for this. Shaped like a brick they make leading a disadvantage, and they usually run around in large packs changing places at every corner. Otherwise, very few categories have much overtaking, V8s at least present an opportunity. BTCC and WTCC seem to have solved the prolem by making them virtually full-contact categories

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

NASCAR claims they are the best in the World, but they are constantly fiddling with the rules...All racing Organisations "fiddle with rules"

But has NASCAR adopted reverse grids or something to that effect. In my opinion NASCAR with its "NASCAR yellows" and varied restrictor plates is one of the most artificial sports in the world. So I am not sure they are a good example.

[Robert Ryan]

But has NASCAR adopted reverse grids or something to that effect. In my opinion NASCAR with its "NASCAR yellows" and varied restrictor plates is one of the most artificial sports in the world. So I am not sure they are a good example.
__________________

DRT :NASCAR is most watched physically of any motorsport in the world, it is a very good example.

In my opinion NASCAR with its "NASCAR yellows" and varied restrictor plates is one of the most artificial sports in the world

There equivalent of "reverse grids"

[Robert Ryan]

One could argue that Sportscar racing, other Touring Car racing and F1 are artifical, but it is your definition of "artificial"
But the arguement is not about perceived artificiallity, but do they "fiddle the rules"...yes.

[Robert Ryan]

DRT read Woolley's reply above.

[Robert Ryan]

BTCC and WTCC seem to have solved the prolem by making them virtually full-contact categories

Crash-a-thons. They do remind me of these without the barwork

[Woolley]

You have a point there. Spot the difference:

[RotorFan]

Originally Posted by racer69

Shouldn't there also be an onus on the manufacturer to build a better car?

Afterall, why should a poor car be paritied into competitiveness?

That would be production touring car racing. This is one-make racing (increasingly).

I find it amazing and appalling that there was talk of a "parity adjustment" after Adelaide. One race with only 2 Fords in the top 10, so they give the Falcon an advantage. I never realised that this "parity" thing would always be there and could be adjusted almost at any time to make it equal.

So not only do competitors get penalised for having a go with the point system, instead needing to trundle around - the manufacturers get penalised for winning.

It raises the question of why, when Ambrose was the only Ford winning races (with a clear power advantage) that the question wasn't raised then. Why was he allowed to be so much faster than the other Ford teams? Why was he faster than the Holden teams (for the most part)?

Its up to the teams and manufacturers to become better to win championships, not relying on rule changes to make it easier. Well, it should be, as racer says.

[retro]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

That would be production touring car racing. This is one-make racing (increasingly).

I find it amazing and appalling that there was talk of a "parity adjustment" after Adelaide. One race with only 2 Fords in the top 10, so they give the Falcon an advantage. I never realised that this "parity" thing would always be there and could be adjusted almost at any time to make it equal.

So not only do competitors get penalised for having a go with the point system, instead needing to trundle around - the manufacturers get penalised for winning.

It raises the question of why, when Ambrose was the only Ford winning races (with a clear power advantage) that the question wasn't raised then. Why was he allowed to be so much faster than the other Ford teams? Why was he faster than the Holden teams (for the most part)?

Its up to the teams and manufacturers to become better to win championships, not relying on rule changes to make it easier. Well, it should be, as racer says.

I think what you are saying has already been taken into account and as far as I can see in the rule book for the v8's this year is a *parity* free year.

[Robert Ryan]

Its up to the teams and manufacturers to become better to win championships, not relying on rule changes to make it easier. Well, it should be, as racer says.

In the scenario, Racer 69, DRT , Storyline have outlined it would untenable.

That would be production touring car racing. This is one-make racing (increasingly).

Production Touring Car racing, needs a lot of adjustments to make it workable, otherwise Total Marque dominance would be come the norm.

find it amazing and appalling that there was talk of a "parity adjustment" after Adelaide. One race with only 2 Fords in the top 10, so they give the Falcon an advantage. I never realised that this "parity" thing would always be there and could be adjusted almost at any time to make it equal.

V8Supercar is following NASCAR, the most watched physically Motorsport in the World. There the fans are constantly talking about parity and expect the organisation to do something about fairly quickly.

[garbo6]

In regards to the reverse grid.

DTM is a 1 race round, and with WTCC each race is classed as a round, and they have 2 race weekends, so there wouldn't be any reverse grids there.

A 3 race (or more) weekend is the number of races if reverse grids are to be implented. Unfortunately all I can see is crashes increasing, and prices spiralling but V8SA seem to think they know what they're doing. Let's see if Cattach and Co. are left with egg on their face.

[racer69]

WTCC does have reverse grids.

The Top 8 in race 1 are reversed for race 2.

[Woolley]

Correct. In fact, I suspect WTCC invented the idea.