[LM24] LM 2012 - The 'Garage 56' Discussion...

[vincegail]

Or maybe 2 motors with a total of 300 kW. Which will be much better for the time they can do between pitstops.

I think my information/memory don't serve me right. Sorry if I a talk a lot of rubbish!

[Simmi]

I've stayed out of this until now. I'm intrigued to see the DW and whether it will work or not. It is NOT the way back in for Highcroft that I had hoped although like others have alluded to, if it garners enough corporate interest they could use it as a springboard. I await the engine supplier with great interest.

Secondly I'm trying to look at the bigger picture. The 56th pit is a something that sets Le Mans apart and I think the choice of this car is really a kind of statement of intent from the ACO as to the possibilities they are willing to embrace. The boundaries should be pushed. Maybe this is not the most appealing solution but then again this is not the only year the 56th pit will be implemented. It is a long-term idea routed in the history of the sport. 10 years from now just think what kind of concepts we could have witnessed. Some groundbreaking, others complete failures.

Seeing which car falls into which bracket will add another dimension to an already great race.

[nobster]

Maybe the Delta wing car is the shape of things to come, personally I do not hope so, I really don't like the look of the car and am curious with such a small front end if this will work.
Every time I see this shape I think it belongs to the Bonneville speed week ( if that still exists... )

[TRuss]

Yeah, they're still running at Bonneville. I agree that the front end is more akin to a land speed car than a road racer.

I'm glad that LeMans is progressive enough to allow one car a year to be completely different. This is more than anyone else is willing to do. Ideally I'd like to see that freedom given to the LMP1 class and I am hoping that in 2014 that we will see that.

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by AGD

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this before as we have a lot of threads on the topic, but there are some new photos of the GreenGT LMPH2 that I have not seen before. Also, there are videos of Christian Pescatori (former Audi driver) testing the test car at Pau and at Le Mans. It's pretty interesting.


It's a great looking concept car, I'm not sure what the final product will look like though. What do you guys think about the sound the thing makes?

Does anyone want to put a stopwatch to see how fast this thing goes down the Mulsanne as compared to current LMP2s and GTEs?

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11106133...24-hours-of-le

So over 5 minutes pit-out to pit-in, what would that be for a full lap? That's too slow to compete but I was surprised to see it running a real lap. The good thing is that it should have some decent range as 12 kg of hydrogen has the energy of 12 gallons of gas. I suppose the ACO expects the Deltawing to be quicker and that's why they picked it. The artlicle makes it sound as if the GreenGT is guaranteed to race next year but isn't it just a back up?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

So over 5 minutes pit-out to pit-in, what would that be for a full lap? That's too slow to compete but I was surprised to see it running a real lap. The good thing is that it should have some decent range as 12 kg of hydrogen has the energy of 12 gallons of gas. I suppose the ACO expects the Deltawing to be quicker and that's why they picked it. The artlicle makes it sound as if the GreenGT is guaranteed to race next year but isn't it just a back up?

There are several news stories about the GreenGT saying that it will be in the 24 hour race next year, but AFAIK, it is still the first reserve for the 56th garage. I'm not totally sure what is going on. Perhaps we will see it at other WEC/LMS/ALMS races though. Here are some more details about the car that I am not sure have been described yet:

The LMP H2 should be especially brisk through corners, thanks to Pagani Huayra-style driver-adjustable flaps that deploy mid-turn to increase downforce, and a KERS-style power boost system that deploys energy harvested via the car's regenerative brakes.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/cartech/elec...2012-50004166/

[Victor_RO]

Looks like the hydrogen LMP project which is in the running for the "56th entry" for 2012 has gone into cooperation with JMB Racing in order to actually run the car once it's built.

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...ance-7847.html

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Looks like the hydrogen LMP project which is in the running for the "56th entry" for 2012 has gone into cooperation with JMB Racing in order to actually run the car once it's built.

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...ance-7847.html

Isn't the 56th entry the Deltawing!?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by CTD

Isn't the 56th entry the Deltawing!?

Three projects were announced as being considered for the slot, not sure if the Deltawing was actually 100% confirmed as the 56th entry. If it has, then this project is the first reserve for the slot if the order in which they were announced is a pointer to anything.

[Félix]

No final announcement yet, but with all the backers the DeltaWing has, it makes the other projects look much less likely.

Still, this contender is quite interesting:
-chassis from an already homologated LMP
-onboard hydrogen "power plant" protected with a carbon/keval structure and extinguishers - will be as strong as the car's monocoque
-12 kg hydrogen tank that's replaced at every pitstop instead of dangerous high pressure refueling
-the performance aim is normal P2 cars

I know which one looks more promising to me for ENDURANCE racing... that's of course if the DW can turn!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Félix

No final announcement yet, but with all the backers the DeltaWing has, it makes the other projects look much less likely.

Still, this contender is quite interesting:
-chassis from an already homologated LMP
-onboard hydrogen "power plant" protected with a carbon/keval structure and extinguishers - will be as strong as the car's monocoque
-12 kg hydrogen tank that's replaced at every pitstop instead of dangerous high pressure refueling
-the performance aim is normal P2 cars

I know which one looks more promising to me for ENDURANCE racing... that's of course if the DW can turn!

Any idea what LMP the car will be based on? I would guess the Courage/Oreca, just because most other cars seem to be based on that these days!

[seanyb505]

That's one attractive prototype endurance-info has with the article. Would much much rather see that than the D****-wing.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by joeb

Any idea what LMP the car will be based on? I would guess the Courage/Oreca, just because most other cars seem to be based on that these days!

Yeah, probably. I guess it could be a Lola or Zytek, but it seems most likely that it would be based off of the LC70/LC75. It'll be interesting to see how they integrate the swappable hydrogen tank into the chassis.

I know Christian Pescatori, a former works Audi Le Mans driver, has been testing the GreenGT development rig. It would be interesting to see him back in the race if things work out that way.

Originally Posted by seanyb505

That's one attractive prototype endurance-info has with the article. Would much much rather see that than the D****-wing.

Definitely! Ok, the prospects for competitiveness and reliability may not be as high as that for the SausageMobile, but that has to be expected given that the Sausagemobile has a run of the mill ICE engine. The GreenGT has some truly innovative powertrain equipment. I think the GreenGT fits the spirit of the 56th garage program much more so than the Deltawing. It will definitely grab some headlines. Plus, it looks so much better!

[Pilgrimage]

I completely missed the whole Deltawing stuff (not sure what i think about it yet, but it certainly doesn't look like a traditional LM car) but according to this link it has been confirmed:

http://sebringraceway.com/newsdetail...KeyValue=33199

[wolfhound]

It looks like a car that will be quick down the straight but how will it turn into corners with very little apparant front downforce?

[Mal]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

It looks like a car that will be quick down the straight but how will it turn into corners with very little apparant front downforce?

I think it will be under the control of the local Air traffic control before it reaches Mulsanne Corner

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Mal

I think it will be under the control of the local Air traffic control before it reaches Mulsanne Corner

Will it ever reach Mulsanne?

[Pilgrimage]

It looks a bit like a side-car - don't think i like it...

[skycafe]

Has there been any further understanding or clarification of just what the qualifiers are for the G 56 entry? Is Green GT still developing toward the end of running for the 56th spot in 2012? Or Courage for that matter.

[Carsandmotorracing]

I'm glad the DW got chosen.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Has there been any further understanding or clarification of just what the qualifiers are for the G 56 entry? Is Green GT still developing toward the end of running for the 56th spot in 2012? Or Courage for that matter.

No not really. There have not been any updates from Green GT or Courage since a few weeks after Le Mans that I know of. I suppose Green GT is still working on their concept car. They've tested a prototype publicly a few times. Courage is still being pretty quiet. I'd like to see the Green GT instead of the Deltawing since it is a more adventurous project even if it does not have the potential for pace of DW yet, but we'll see. The ACO may keep it waiting so something using a regular old ICE can do some exhibition laps. Heck, Audi or Peugeot may have something more innovative from an energy standpoint next year if they race hybrids.

[MitchZ06]

I wouldn't mind seeing a Hybrid/Diesel and Diesel pairing from Audi and Peugeot next season, it'd be an interesting comparison.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by AGD

No not really. There have not been any updates from Green GT or Courage since a few weeks after Le Mans that I know of. I suppose Green GT is still working on their concept car. They've tested a prototype publicly a few times. Courage is still being pretty quiet. I'd like to see the Green GT instead of the Deltawing since it is a more adventurous project even if it does not have the potential for pace of DW yet, but we'll see. The ACO may keep it waiting so something using a regular old ICE can do some exhibition laps. Heck, Audi or Peugeot may have something more innovative from an energy standpoint next year if they race hybrids.

right, Audi or Peugeot could very well be hatching hybrid tech. Personally, I am intrigued with Green, but can not figure if they merit building and ACO spec car now if the delta thing is a lock for the entry.

[gregtummer]

The DeltaWing was on display at Petit Le Mans this past weekend.

[MitchZ06]

I'd rather see Porsche get the G56 spot with that 918 RSR