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Old 29 May 2023, 22:26 (Ref:4158797)   #76
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Fernando needed to stop again at least once to put a second set on. I believe that he had the feedback from Stroll on inters which was that over a lap they weren’t quicker. I recall the commentary team saying at one point that the inter shod runners weren’t going quicker than the slick runners. So whilst it ended up looking like a dumb decision because more rain came immediately after he pitted, I think it was very clever, especially as they knew he could still stop again and keep second if it turned out to be the wrong call.
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Old 29 May 2023, 23:32 (Ref:4158801)   #77
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post

rather, if you were going to guess/take a chance that the rain would stop quickly and you knew Max (who had been nursing those mediums forever) was going to have to make another stop one way or another anyways, then why didnt Alonso stick with the Mediums he already had on?

i am definitely missing something here?
Alonso had started the race on hard tyres I guess as a strategic difference (ie overcut / run longer) than Max who started on mediums. I guess that if the track was damp as it was new mediums would have offered a lot more grip than worn hard rubber and would certainly be better than Max's old worn mediums we know he was complaining of graining with. He rolled the dice knowing second was safe and it might have closed him up on Max had the track not further deteriorated. Stroll suggesting inters were no better would have no doubt further pointed Alonso to run new mediums not inters.

A slight wind change taking the rain half a kilometre away could have been an inspired punt. As it was they rolled a double 1 with the dice not a double 6 and the rain intensified.
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Old 30 May 2023, 08:17 (Ref:4158815)   #78
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I think the reasoning was that although Alonso had been waiting for a chance to overcut Verstappen, as he had the hards on and Max the softs, he was losing time to him during the initial phase of the rain, so he jumped first, and then, as others have spelled out, it was a question of rolling the dice on a track which wouldn't get wetter. It's questionable that he could have passed Max if he had pitter a lap earlier and put on inters as well. The deficit appears to have been too big. Max's pace on slicks was bad, but not bad enough to lose first place.
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Old 30 May 2023, 15:14 (Ref:4158861)   #79
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Originally Posted by peterelise View Post
Fernando needed to stop again at least once to put a second set on. I believe that he had the feedback from Stroll on inters which was that over a lap they weren’t quicker. I recall the commentary team saying at one point that the inter shod runners weren’t going quicker than the slick runners. So whilst it ended up looking like a dumb decision because more rain came immediately after he pitted, I think it was very clever, especially as they knew he could still stop again and keep second if it turned out to be the wrong call.
If inters were no quicker (but by inference, no slower) I would still have thought inters would be the preferred option as they would be more consistent to drive on and there would be less chance of binning it.
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Old 30 May 2023, 15:34 (Ref:4158864)   #80
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... then why didnt Alonso stick with the Mediums he already had on?
meant to say Hard tire there not Mediums...sorry for the confusion that may have caused.
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Old 30 May 2023, 15:44 (Ref:4158869)   #81
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If inters were no quicker (but by inference, no slower) I would still have thought inters would be the preferred option as they would be more consistent to drive on and there would be less chance of binning it.
I assume their thinking was the rain wouldn't last and once a dry line formed they would remain on slicks vs having to come in to switch form inter to slick. But in the end the rain increased and the gamble on running slicks didn't work. And intermediates was the correct choice.

All of this stuff is hindsight at this point. During the race, given Max was supposed to have run the medium way beyond recommended lap count I was saying they should have pitted with the expectation that Alonso would cover him. I was concerned they were going to run the mediums too long and then Max would suffer a puncture or a tire would go down due to wear. But I assume they were monitoring wear and felt it was worth the risk. I think that if there had not been any rain expected Max would have pitted earlier.

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Old 30 May 2023, 20:06 (Ref:4158893)   #82
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If inters were no quicker (but by inference, no slower) I would still have thought inters would be the preferred option as they would be more consistent to drive on and there would be less chance of binning it.
Alonso stated post-race that he thought most the track was bone dry. The idea must have been to gamble on the rain amounting to nothing and then you don't want to be on baking inters.
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Old 31 May 2023, 08:27 (Ref:4158922)   #83
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Are we and the journalists just looking to make the season more exciting than it is?

Ver had a speed advantage over Alo even on worn mediums. Even if Alo put on intermediates, I do not think he would have caught Ver over that lap until Ver pitted.

Only Ver binning it or making a mistake would have given the win to Alo - so I do not think it was a AM strategical blunder. The win was always out of their hands

Also the commentary during the race- when Alo made 5 seconds on Ver and were saying is because the mediums are going off. It was because Ver was in traffic and had like 7 cars to pass. As soon as he cleared the traffic he made the gap back up - but somehow sky commentators missed this.

I find F1 journalists especially the ones that are in the paddock quite soft on F1 nowadays (do not really dish out harsh criticism) and desperate to create excitement in a season where it will be very little of it (first Per having a chance to become world champion, now AM in the driving seat to win Monaco)
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Old 31 May 2023, 09:14 (Ref:4158925)   #84
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Are we and the journalists just looking to make the season more exciting than it is?

Ver had a speed advantage over Alo even on worn mediums. Even if Alo put on intermediates, I do not think he would have caught Ver over that lap until Ver pitted.

Only Ver binning it or making a mistake would have given the win to Alo - so I do not think it was a AM strategical blunder. The win was always out of their hands

Also the commentary during the race- when Alo made 5 seconds on Ver and were saying is because the mediums are going off. It was because Ver was in traffic and had like 7 cars to pass. As soon as he cleared the traffic he made the gap back up - but somehow sky commentators missed this.

I find F1 journalists especially the ones that are in the paddock quite soft on F1 nowadays (do not really dish out harsh criticism) and desperate to create excitement in a season where it will be very little of it (first Per having a chance to become world champion, now AM in the driving seat to win Monaco)
Simply..... yes.
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Old 31 May 2023, 17:08 (Ref:4158995)   #85
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Well the race was not exciting and it is the job of those people to try and entertain us, it is hard enough for them during the usual F1 races but at monaco they have a tough time trying to say anything of interest as the procession of cars go around the town. You have to give them credit for trying
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Old 31 May 2023, 17:10 (Ref:4158997)   #86
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I stupidly posted the following in the wrong thread:

A couple of days ago, someone posed the question about the screens across the Red Bull, I think it was, pit garage. I do believe that teams are permitted to do this if they have to do substantial rebuilding work, say after a significant prang.
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Old 31 May 2023, 17:46 (Ref:4158999)   #87
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I stupidly posted the following in the wrong thread:.
It's OK Mike, we're used to it.
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Old 31 May 2023, 18:54 (Ref:4159010)   #88
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I stupidly posted the following in the wrong thread:

A couple of days ago, someone posed the question about the screens across the Red Bull, I think it was, pit garage. I do believe that teams are permitted to do this if they have to do substantial rebuilding work, say after a significant prang.
There was a comment earlier in this thread. I had posted a reply as well...

https://tentenths.com/forum/showpost...9&postcount=16

To summarize my post... it sounds like the regulations allow covers in specific situations, but those are very limited. And rebuilding after a crash or to hide specific components (such as underbody) would not be one of them. But that is just my reading of the regulations and as we know how they are actually applied (unpublished supplementals and/or clarifications seem to exist) is not always in sync with the FIA regulations that are publicly published.

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Old 1 Jun 2023, 07:37 (Ref:4159069)   #89
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Are we and the journalists just looking to make the season more exciting than it is?

Ver had a speed advantage over Alo even on worn mediums. Even if Alo put on intermediates, I do not think he would have caught Ver over that lap until Ver pitted.

Only Ver binning it or making a mistake would have given the win to Alo - so I do not think it was a AM strategical blunder. The win was always out of their hands

Also the commentary during the race- when Alo made 5 seconds on Ver and were saying is because the mediums are going off. It was because Ver was in traffic and had like 7 cars to pass. As soon as he cleared the traffic he made the gap back up - but somehow sky commentators missed this.

I find F1 journalists especially the ones that are in the paddock quite soft on F1 nowadays (do not really dish out harsh criticism) and desperate to create excitement in a season where it will be very little of it (first Per having a chance to become world champion, now AM in the driving seat to win Monaco)
It depends on what we think of as exciting. We need to reset our expectations a bit. You could argue (it's tough, but you could) that it's exciting that Red Bull may still win all races, as that has not yet happened in an F1 season. You can also see a close battle for supremacy behind the Red Bulls. But yes, it's hardly box office stuff compared to 2021.

It may be slightly wishful thinking on the part of journalists, but Alonso winning would be a big story, and the fact that it's not a foregone conclusion, but viable if a few things fall his way makes them talk it up a bit. Equally, Pérez is unlikely to beat Verstappen over a season, but if reliability steps in and Verstappen has a few accidents, it's possible. However, I agree on the last point that on merit, he has very little hope. As long as journalists try to express a dose of realism in what they write, it's fair enough to describe the possibility of it occurring and makes for a more interesting and insightful analysis.
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Old 1 Jun 2023, 10:06 (Ref:4159091)   #90
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Hmmm, maybe. I think we all know though that even if Max has several disastrous races and Checo gets the lead in the championship, RBR will ensure that the 'No. 1' driver will come out on top.

As to Alonso, that is more of a possibility. If Max had bogged down at the start in Monaco and Fernando had got the drop on him, who knows what might have happened. I think there is every possibility that the cards will fall his way at some point in the season. The car is good and he's driving as well as ever. For me, it's the one saving grace of the season so far.
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Old 1 Jun 2023, 14:38 (Ref:4159138)   #91
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[QUOTE=Aysedasi;4159091]Hmmm, maybe. I think we all know though that even if Max has several disastrous races and Checo gets the lead in the championship, RBR will ensure that the 'No. 1' driver will come out on top.

RBR doesn't need to do that, simple fact that Checo is not in the same league as Max!
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Old 1 Jun 2023, 14:45 (Ref:4159139)   #92
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Hmmm, maybe. I think we all know though that even if Max has several disastrous races and Checo gets the lead in the championship, RBR will ensure that the 'No. 1' driver will come out on top.
RBR doesn't need to do that, simple fact that Checo is not in the same league as Max!
No, he isn't, but that wasn't what I was hinting at Nobby....
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Old 1 Jun 2023, 14:47 (Ref:4159140)   #93
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No, he isn't, but that wasn't what I was hinting at Nobby....

What are you hinting at then Andrew….?


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Old 1 Jun 2023, 14:56 (Ref:4159141)   #94
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I'm simply saying Nobby that if Max had bad luck in a few races and Checo went in front (which I know is unlikely), RBR would still ensure that Max has the priority to win the title...
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Old 2 Jun 2023, 08:16 (Ref:4159254)   #95
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To be fair after Checo's disastrous weekend at Monaco, I don't think Red Bull need to worry anymore about him challenging Max for the title. If you want to challenge Max for the title in the same team, you definitely do not need off weekends like that.
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Old 2 Jun 2023, 08:18 (Ref:4159255)   #96
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Yeah, I agree it's almost certainly academic.....
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