[Official] Miami Grand Prix 2023: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 5 of 23

[chillibowl]

been seeing jokes on the net suggesting this guy is working on a BE biopic movie!



that would be some Hollywood magic!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by 1969MGCGTdriver

Miami is all style, no substance. The pre-race "festivities" and grid walk represented Miami perfectly. The celebrities and lots of the "fans" were there to be seen at a big event and brag about being there, they were not there to watch a race. Just a convenient gathering place for a bunch of narcissists. Clearly there were real fans in attendance, I just believe they were in the minority.

I think this entire paragraph could be rewritten by replacing 'Miami' with 'Monaco' and it would still be accurate.
But Monaco is excused because of 'Tradition'.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think this entire paragraph could be rewritten by replacing 'Miami' with 'Monaco' and it would still be accurate.
But Monaco is excused because of 'Tradition'.

im with you on this 100%!

to put races in places where modern F1 cars dont fit, make the racing secondary to the spectacle, surround it with glitz and glamour, luxury hotels and mega yacht marinas, and then invite all their celebrity friends and their swimsuit model girlfriends....

its not an American thing but really something F1 has been doing all on its own for a very long time now!

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think this entire paragraph could be rewritten by replacing 'Miami' with 'Monaco' and it would still be accurate.
But Monaco is excused because of 'Tradition'.

I find Monaco particularly special because it is the track that requires most skill from the drivers, and looks so spectacular when they are going around the bumps at Massinet or driving so close to the wall at Tabac. The final pole lap there is one of the highlights of the season. And it is also special to know that these are practically the same streets that Tazio Nuvolari and Achille Varzi raced on in their famous scrap 90 years ago. It is generally easier to recall the events of any given Monaco Grand Prix in history than a random other race. These are things that the likes of Miami simply don't have and I think it is a very special track.

You could say that everything in that comment applies to Monaco as well and it would be better if that wasn't the case, but Monaco also has the extra element on track that Miami does not have, meaning that, for me, it will forever deserve its place on the calendar. It is extremely difficult to overtake there, but that also means that when overtakes do happen they are particularly exciting ones.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think this entire paragraph could be rewritten by replacing 'Miami' with 'Monaco' and it would still be accurate.
But Monaco is excused because of 'Tradition'.

Excused by who? Loads of people think that Monaco is style over substance.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think this entire paragraph could be rewritten by replacing 'Miami' with 'Monaco' and it would still be accurate.
But Monaco is excused because of 'Tradition'.

I fully agree. I read some earlier complaints about the activities being "different" and thought... do we not have Monaco? Maybe we need more rules to create a homogenous experience for all races. It would be much better if they were all clones of each other with no level of local experience represented.

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

You could say that everything in that comment applies to Monaco as well and it would be better if that wasn't the case, but Monaco also has the extra element on track that Miami does not have, meaning that, for me, it will forever deserve its place on the calendar. It is extremely difficult to overtake there, but that also means that when overtakes do happen they are particularly exciting ones.

Clearly you understand the context of the comment is of the non-racing activities.

Richard

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Clearly you understand the context of the comment is of the non-racing activities.

Richard

I inferred (perhaps wrongly) that 1969MGCGTDriver was saying that Miami should be scrapped from the calendar because all it is about is the non-racing activities, and then crmalcolm was saying that if so, the same should apply to Monaco.

The point of my comment was to suggest that Monaco has a lot to offer in terms of the on-track activities as well, unlike Miami.

[seanyb505]

I've been watching racing my whole life, not 40 years plus, but we're getting there. I don't care for gimmicks. I tuned in on the formation lap expecting to get bored within 20 minutes and go back to yard work. The race kept me intrigued until lap 55 or so. Turned it off about 5 minutes later, before anyone got out of a car.

I thought it was an enjoyable afternoon.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

I inferred (perhaps wrongly) that 1969MGCGTDriver was saying that Miami should be scrapped from the calendar because all it is about is the non-racing activities, and then crmalcolm was saying that if so, the same should apply to Monaco.

Maybe he can clarify, but I take his post as a general comment on the city of Miami and that he described the city as being all glitz and no substance and that the festivities surrounding the event reflected that same personality.

Note, I don't particular care for the circuit myself one way or another. I think the race this past weekend was particularly boring. I didn't watch any of the pre-race activities. I typically tune in just on formation lap. I started watching just as it finished, so I ended up fast forwarding through about 80% of it. I may have to go back and watch some of the pre-race stuff out of curiosity if it is available via the F1TV app.

So I can't comment on if the pre-race stuff was that bad or not. I can imagine it might be a bit cheesy. I think COTA organizers have done a good job of providing a good "Texas flair" that the F1 circus finds enjoyable. Maybe Miami will figure out a groove that works for them and is also enjoyable by the teams, drivers and fans. I expect Las Vegas to try hard and hopefully they pull it off. I expect they will turn the knob up to eleven there as well.

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

The point of my comment was to suggest that Monaco has a lot to offer in terms of the on-track activities as well, unlike Miami.

It's something we can all have different opinions about. I love the Monaco GP when viewed as a whole and would absolutely hate to see it be removed from the calendar. But if you look at it dispassionately and purely as a race track and the racing there. It is absolutely horrible. Drop the track into a remote desert and then race on it. Would anyone really love it if all that remained was the configuration as a circuit, no history, no tradition, etc.? As to your comment that since passing is rare, that when one happens it becomes something to be excited about. From my perspective, that is nearly a perfect example of damning with faint praise. A boring track that is difficult to pass on and generates processional racing in which qualifying position is the most important thing? I willfully ignore how bad Monaco is as a circuit, but very much enjoy it for all of the other reasons. Tradition, history and location being a large part of it.

Richard

[Tourer]

Personally didn't watch the pre-race razzamatazz - generally have no interest in it but I can see the benefit for those at the event - if done well. For those of us watching at home, not so much but there ARE times where those on site should be the focus.

Really enjoyed the race itself, with quite a bit going on with actual and "nearly" passes, drivers coming up through the field and vice versa, some stand-out moves (Kevin Mag amongst others) and generally speaking, it was only in the last few laps that it seemed to settle down. Enjoyable and the layout of the circuit did appear to assist.

Yes it's still fairly new, yes it's unusual but it brings a very passionate crowd and the racing was pretty damn good - well worth having it on the calendar IMHO.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

And it is also special to know that these are practically the same streets that Tazio Nuvolari and Achille Varzi raced on in their famous scrap 90 years ago. It is generally easier to recall the events of any given Monaco Grand Prix in history than a random other race. These are things that the likes of Miami simply don't have and I think it is a very special track.

If you accept that new tracks should be added to the calendar from time-to-time - how do they go about getting the heritage that Monaco is afforded?

For me, a lot of the arguments I hear regarding why certain tracks should not be on the calendar in 2023 are reasons that many other tracks could also be dropped - even those with the largest tradition and heritage.

Not wanting to draw this into a Monaco-bashing thread, I just put that as an example of how everything F1 fans find wrong about a certain track can (at times) be ignored about others.

• If the off-track activities are the issue, F1 has always been like that.
• If the quality of circuit is the issue, F1 has always had poor circuits.
• If the geographical location is the issue, F1 has always had a disproportionate spread of locations around the globe.

[BertMk2]

I'm not a fan of the circuit - but then again I'm not really a fan of any street circuit (be that in F1 or otherwise). It's certainly not the worst track on the calendar as the drivers did seem to be able to race and overtake.

Did we get any clarity on why De Vries wasn't penalised for the first lap contact with Norris? When I saw the replays it looked like a slam dunk for a penalty as he just drove into the back of him. The lack of penalty for De Vries makes the penalty for Sainz in Australia look even more odd.

[S griffin]

The circuit to me would be more suited for things like IMSA and Indycar. It's nice F1 wanted to come here, but it just doesn't really do it for me. I really don't think we need it that much anyway

Yes, the stewards did not seem bothered with the de Vries/Norris incident. Maybe they were as bored as us. Does seem very odd compared with what happened to Sainz as you say

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The circuit to me would be more suited for things like IMSA and Indycar. It's nice F1 wanted to come here, but it just doesn't really do it for me. I really don't think we need it that much anyway

Yes, the stewards did not seem bothered with the de Vries/Norris incident. Maybe they were as bored as us. Does seem very odd compared with what happened to Sainz as you say

The de Vries/Norris incident happened at Turn 1 just after the start. That's hardly enough time to get bored.

[S griffin]

I know when it happened, it's just that the stewards didn't seem interested. In fact the only penalty I can remember is for Sainz for pitlane speeding. Must have been one of those rare races when racing incidents doesn't seem to concern them. But anyway my bored comment was just a joke

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

In fact the only penalty I can remember is for Sainz for pitlane speeding.

Perez - Reprimand (non-driving) for being late to pre-race parade.

You're right - very low on the penalty score.

[Derwent]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think this entire paragraph could be rewritten by replacing 'Miami' with 'Monaco' and it would still be accurate.
But Monaco is excused because of 'Tradition'.

But Monaco has class which America does not.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Perez - Reprimand (non-driving) for being late to pre-race parade.

He deserves congratulations for that......

[P38 in workshop]

I've just been reading on motorsport.com that there are plans to "consult" the drivers about the format of the pre-race show.Maybe one of the drivers will advise them that grid girls faded from the scene years ago,and that the cherished American institution of cheerleading isn't actually any more enlightened in the eyes of much of the world.I am encouraged to learn that some progress may be in the pipeline.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Derwent

But Monaco has class which America does not.

I find your posts fascinating. They seem to bring an interesting mixture of chauvinistic and jingoistic ideology to the discussion. An interesting perspective.

Richard

[broadrun96]

Drive by insulting seems to be the MO. And as you can tell, Miami really didn't give a rip about ANY ONES opinion. Been that way for 60 years now so guessing it ain't gonna change any time soon.

And remember claims of class seems to reflect personal shortcomings and desires over actual activities

[1969MGCGTdriver]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Maybe he can clarify, but I take his post as a general comment on the city of Miami and that he described the city as being all glitz and no substance and that the festivities surrounding the event reflected that same personality.

My jab was aimed solely at the pre-race garbage. As an American it was embarrassing. The clueless, idiotic, non-race-fan celebrities just help to further strengthen the rest-of-the-world view of dumb Americans.

I thought the race was ok, even if we knew the eventual outcome before the race even started. And I say that as a Hass & Red Bull fan. As soon as Max passed Checo I turned it off and came back later that night to watch the post-race interviews.

I like having races in this hemisphere so I don't want the race to be taken off of the calendar. I just wish the idiotic pre-race stuff was either eliminated or fixed.

There are other races I believe should be eliminated for various reasons but that's a different discussion for a different time.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by 1969MGCGTdriver

My jab was aimed solely at the pre-race garbage. As an American it was embarrassing. The clueless, idiotic, non-race-fan celebrities just help to further strengthen the rest-of-the-world view of dumb Americans.

Thanks for the follow up. I particularly find your last bit in the quote above interesting. I also can sometimes cringe at attempts to showcase American culture.

American culture can be all over the place. For anyone who has lived here that is not a surprise because there is no single "America". The people, geography and culture can be very different. Pacific northwest, desert of the southwest, heartland farm country, New England coast are just a few. And even here, people have different opinions, likes and dislikes of each. I expect the same is for non-American's as well. It always found it interesting that Michael Schumacher seemed to love visiting and vacationing in the US. I think he had/has a ranch in Texas and liked the culture there.

The problem with trying to represent the local culture (or even a "generic America") in things like the pre-race (which I have yet to watch) is that it's easy to create an accidental and unflattering parody of the culture that you are trying to present in a positive light. Even if you do a good job and faithfully represent that culture, you will always have someone from the outside who points their finger and laughs. You can't please everyone. Especially those who feel their personal culture is superior to all others or is unable to appreciate diversity.

I think new events like Miami or Las Vegas will need to mature as they go and hopefully they figure out what works and doesn't work while still showcasing the local flavor. But a key thing here is maturity. As mentioned earlier in this thread, we look at events like Monaco because they have figured it out over many decades. I am sure there were rough spots for all events at some point in their past. But if Miami got it wrong, they need to hear about it so they can make corrections.

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

The people, geography and culture can be very different. Pacific northwest, desert of the southwest, heartland farm country, New England coast are just a few.

This, for me, sums up why there is no reason for USA to not have 3 (or more) GPs in a season.
It is easy for many to look through a European filter at the US and think of it on the same scale as a European country. Many seem to have been content with countries as geographically small as Spain or Italy to host 2 events in a season but overlook the fact that the US is vast and geographically diverse when you consider the whole nation.

If a geographical area of 10,180,000 sq km (Europe) can host 9 events, why can't a geographical area of 9,833,517 sq km host 3?

https://kellyplanet.com/blog/learnst...1-learn-stuff/

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

This, for me, sums up why there is no reason for USA to not have 3 (or more) GPs in a season.
It is easy for many to look through a European filter at the US and think of it on the same scale as a European country. Many seem to have been content with countries as geographically small as Spain or Italy to host 2 events in a season but overlook the fact that the US is vast and geographically diverse when you consider the whole nation.

If a geographical area of 10,180,000 sq km (Europe) can host 9 events, why can't a geographical area of 9,833,517 sq km host 3?

https://kellyplanet.com/blog/learnst...1-learn-stuff/

100% agree. As long as the local demand exists (seems to be very much the case as long as they don't price them sky high which will be an issue for Miami and Las Vegas) and the quality of the events are up to snuff (COTA is good, jury is out of the other two).

Richard