What is the approximate lap time difference between formula 3000 and F-3?

[Frank_White]

This is of interest to me because i have just observed on the Renault-Sport website that the renault v-6 boasts of having lap times approximately 2 seconds below f-3. Therefore, knowing the lap diffences between formula 3000 and F-3 would enable me to compare the performance between renault v-6 and f-3000.

[Shunt the Hunt]

At Magny-Cours, the pole-position was 1'11'185 for Formula 1 (Williams-BMW/Juan Pablo Montoya) vs 1'32'234 for Formula 3 (Dallara-Renault/Olivier Pla.

At Hockenheim, the pole-position was 1'14'382 for F1 (Ferrari/Michael Schumacher) vs 1'34'715 for F3 (Dallara-Opel/Kousuke Matsuura)

So, the gap between F1 and F3 is about 20 seconds.

[cos]

Going from the 2002 British GP:
F3000 pole time 1:36.529 (Enge)
F3 pole time: 1:43.052 (Carbone)

So the F3 cars are just within 107% of the F3000 cars.

[Frank_White]

i see! from the article in renault sport i was led to believe that the performance differences between the renault v-6 and f-3000 were less pronounced. however, i guess for the renault v-6 to be a legitimate feeder series for f1 of more significance would be; the similarity of the handling and set-up characteristics vis-a-vis the f1 cars and the renault v-6.

[Russfeld]

I kinda like the V6 actually just because F3s look like wussy cars. Good power and not much grip is the best. You can handle that you can handle anything. rolling wings were you mat the throttle arent very impressive.

[ringo]

yeah f3's sure look gay

[Cole Trickle]

Now if you you want to be a bit more technical rather than stupid, let's ask sensible questions...mr ringo.
Mini speed of an F3 car would be the sama as the 3000 car in the high speed stuff...and quicker in the low speed stuff. Sure it has to be for gays...
The lap time difference...generally around 5 seconds is due to the power...guess how big is the gap...
****ing 280 brake!!! and only 5 seconds!!! then you reallise how **** is the 3000 car.

Yeah F3 is for gays...wich means that 99% of the F1 drivers are puffter, as they all went through it. I love this place not!

[Russfeld]

lap time derived from grip is easier than lap time derived from power. Look at how many people complain that F3000 is too hard, or too different from F3, or whatever the excuse of the month is. Fact remains the truly gifted shine instantly in F3000 and F3k tends to show how fast people arent and embarasses a lot of people

[Red Dog]

"F3 gay.....wussy"????? when did you last drive anything which comes even close to the lap time of a f ford let alone F3? Get real, you guys.(russfeld, ringo)

[SALEEN S7R]

F3 cars do look gay. Its a fact. As for driving something close to the speed, gee well lets think, anyone here own a Toyota Supra? Or a Subaru Impreza WRX? or a BMW M3?

F3 cars arent that much faster than ur mid range performance road car. Christ a Sierra Cosworth woudnt be too far behind a F3 car over 1 lap. Now if u said a Formula Renault V6 car then people might take notice as they actually have a bit of a power advantage. As well as a decent chasis.

[Russfeld]

F3 cars are lame, so are Atlantics and Nissan 2 litres. Give me something with a lot of power and not much aero grip. Something you have to actually drive. When was the last time you saw an F3 car get a powerslide going?

[ivorsmall1]

So russfeld,when was the last time you had to drive something that wasnt your own arm eh!!I wish there were some more people on here that actualy knew what they were talking about,rather than your below average bobble hatter with a gigantic chip on their shoulder!!still,we live in hope......

[Russfeld]

Have you ever watched an F3 and F3000 race? You sound like the one with a chip on your shoulder. Give me laptime based on power instead of lap time based on grip any day

[ivorsmall1]

was only playing with you!!! F3 races are soooo boring.3000 races are only marginally better and thats only due to over ambitious driver causing shunts!

[Attila]

Well I drove both an old 94 F3 car and a 93 F3000 car. It is very vary hard to be on the pace with both cars, but they need different driving styles. I say that an F3 car is very easy to drive, but is very hard to drive fast. The f3000 car is just plain hard to drive. I think anybody who can drive an F3 car fast, can drive anything fast. Also, with a few exception it takes time to learn an F3000 car. It took Justin Wilson 4 seasons to win, Tomas Enge 5 seasons if I remember correct. Dominiqe Delestre told me that Panis for example was plain terrible with an F3000 car, in his early days. So do not generalise too much, a good driver will win in any category. Of course that is just an opinion.
Cheers

[Russfeld]

True but the Heidfelds and Montoyas of the world were on it *instantly* and thats why they got into, and are still in, Formula 1.

[SALEEN S7R]

Actually Justin Wilson joined F3000 in 1999 and left in 2001, thats 3 seasons. Russfeld, now that Justin has gotton into F1 I belive he will stay there, hes a cracking driver, better than Heidfield I think and has the potential to be bette than JPM.

I mean okay so Wilson is a slow learner, it appears. Although take a look at Barichello he started F1 with Jordan in 1993 in 1994 he was doing better until Senna died, then he went down hill because Senna was his mentor and he was trying to get over it etc, in 1996 he started picking up the pace again with Jordan in 1997 with Stewart he got 2nd place at Monaco, in 1997 and didnt do a thing after, in 1998 they scored points but were dogged by reliabilty. In 1999 Rubens had a decent car and proved what he can do scoring a few podiums and unfortunate not to get a win at the European GP.

Then hes moved at Ferrari and it looks like hes staying there, all Im saying is differnt drivers have differnt styles and differnt drivers take longer or shorter whichever the case may be to prove themselves, dosent make them any less of a driver. Its the end result that counts all the other stuff in between dosent matter.

[Speedworx]

F3 cars look better than some racing cars (Ferrari F1, TWS)

Personally, I love Formula 3. Its got great racing and great looking cars.

Its known that F3 cars are easier to drive. F3000 cars used to be terrible to drive, but have been made better this year (hence Haberfeld getting 2 podiums)

Lots of drivers get stuck in F3000, cos its too hard to master. Only drivers with F1 contracts move on faster (Alonso, Webber). It tends to take 3-5 season to really get good in F3000.

[Patrick]

"F3 cars arent that much faster than ur mid range performance road car. Christ a Sierra Cosworth woudnt be too far behind a F3 car over 1 lap."

Saleen S7R there is a huge performance difference between a Seirra Cosworth and a F3 car, it would be something around 25 seconds a lap on most circtuits!!!

[Attila]

Personally, I think Justin is one of the better drivers in the world. Don't get me wrong when I said that he needed some seasons, I like him as a person I like him as a driver. I was most happy to hear that he finally graduated into F1. I love his drivingstyle too, there aren't too many drivers who dare to atack every curbe like he does. Finally, sorry about the spelling it is easier to talk English than to write it. :-)) I promise I will keep on practicing.

[SALEEN S7R]

I 2nd that, Justin is going to be a superstar in a few years I think, wait and see, just wait and see.

[Russfeld]

It still dont see how you can accept excuses about the cars being easy to drive, or the series is hard to master, or whatever when we have drivers who win races and sometimes contend for the championship in their rookie years. Why take Wilson who didnt win until his 3rd season when you can have Montoya who won in his second start. As an F1 team manager I need a guy who can win now, not someone who takes a few years to learn.

[Red Dog]

I can't think of any road cars that could beat an F3 let alone F3000 round a race circuit. Did anyone see Top Gear - the Radical 1300 slayed the Zonda lap time. Who said Cosworth Sierra? HA HA HA!

I agree it is much more fun seeing the door handling and bumping that goes on in GT and Touring Cars but the sad fact is that the fastest way round the track is not spectacular. And if you touch wheels in a single seater its goodbye.

[ringo]

Originally posted by Cole Trickle
Now if you you want to be a bit more technical rather than stupid, let's ask sensible questions...mr ringo.
Mini speed of an F3 car would be the sama as the 3000 car in the high speed stuff...and quicker in the low speed stuff. Sure it has to be for gays...
The lap time difference...generally around 5 seconds is due to the power...guess how big is the gap...
****ing 280 brake!!! and only 5 seconds!!! then you reallise how **** is the 3000 car.

Yeah F3 is for gays...wich means that 99% of the F1 drivers are puffter, as they all went through it. I love this place not!

Hey cole don't be a thick wench read with your eyes!!! I said they look gay (a joke referring to the previous comment). And they do due to the airbox sticking out the side. i agree 100% that the chassis setup and handling characteristics of f3 and far closer to f1 than f3000...

p.s- Don't worry saleen i still prefer 3000's

[ringo]

Originally posted by Red Dog
"F3 gay.....wussy"????? when did you last drive anything which comes even close to the lap time of a f ford let alone F3? Get real, you guys.(russfeld, ringo)

as above for you to redboy....