Roger Penske's View

[jhansen]

An interesting read. I've highlighted a few things, which I think could spark some good discussion. The interesting bit to me is that he'd like to see one prototype class and one GT class. More rules stability is also mentioned along with the ACO influence. Your thoughts?

"One thing I wish in the Series – and I've talked to Scott Atherton and Tim Mayer, and I'd like to talk to Don Panoz about it – is that we're in America and people want to see racing. I'm not sure people understand all these classes. Sometimes I don't understand it sometimes. But overall it's been a fantastic Series and from a Penske Racing perspective, it gives us an opportunity to compete in long-distance events and use our strategy."

"I'd like to see a consistent series where we have a set of rules that would be for five years. The American Le Mans Series is being dictated by a rulebook from the ACO (which drives Le Mans). We are a lot different with four-hour races and one or two 12-hour ones versus a 24-hour race. It's not completely consistent. I'm of the mind that we need to have one pure prototype class and one for coupes like the Corvettes and Porsches and Aston Martins. I think the excitement of the racing if everybody had the same power and had different looking chassis and different looking engine, I think it would take the sport another 100 feet high."

http://www.americanlemans.com/News/Article.aspx?ID=2716

[zac510]

Does he want to dumb it down already?

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by zac510

Does he want to dumb it down already?

It is very simple, he is speaking about a US series that will draw US fans and US car comapnies.
He has forgotten more about racing than all his nay-sayers here will probably ever know.
Roger thinks in terms of what is good for Roger, but history is full of memorable facts, because Roger doing what was good for Roger, also made racing, as a whole,better.

It is amazing the people here, who are thousands of miles away are attacking Roger because he is stating the obvious, that what is good for LeMans, most likely does not do squat for the US racing scene.
How does that quote go, "you can't handle the truth"?

Bob

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

It is very simple, he is speaking about a US series that will draw US fans and US car comapnies.
He has forgotten more about racing than all his nay-sayers here will probably ever know.
Roger thinks in terms of what is good for Roger, but history is full of memorable facts, because Roger doing what was good for Roger, also made racing, as a whole,better.

It is amazing the people here, who are thousands of miles away are attacking Roger because he is stating the obvious, that what is good for LeMans, most likely does not do squat for the US racing scene.
How does that quote go, "you can't handle the truth"?

Bob

Bob, I think your post ably demonstrates why I have reason to be alarmed..........

[old man]

So Mr Penske has got everybody thinking and talking already and whilst many here would love to talk to the various officials he is someone who can and will do it if he really wants.

The LMP2 decision would surely be a Porsche decision not a Penske one and was proabably more about selling customer cars than world domination like Audi. If Penske wants one LMP class he must feel the Porsche has the legs to give the Audi a run for it's money and on various threads we have discussed bringing the GT classes together to give real competition for exotic road cars so that is not a new idea

The point made about American and European spectators is very true, if you attend a GT race in Europe and do not have access to a timing screen you do not know what is happening and except for the LM24, nobody cares that you do not know! So far as I know Radio Le Mans was an initiative by the Brits for the Brits, not by the ACO as a service for the race fans.

The unity of American single seater racing though makes me a bit nervous as to the outcome of any discussions Mr Penske may have

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Bob, I think your post ably demonstrates why I have reason to be alarmed..........

I agree with you.
I probably should have put in the post that Roger's moves have also left a rather sour history at times.

Still it is good to have a major player stating the fact that the IMSA had better worry more about its home turf, rather than something thousands of miles away.

I think a three class system, would be nice, one sport/proto class; one mod. prod. big bore class; and a mod. prod. GTU class, only this time make it under three liters, in the old Mazda-Datsun battle arena.

The bottom field filling sport/proto cars have never really made much sense, or been very popular.
Bob

[veeten]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

I agree with you.
I probably should have put in the post that Roger's moves have also left a rather sour history at times.

Still it is good to have a major player stating the fact that the IMSA had better worry more about its home turf, rather than something thousands of miles away.

I think a three class system, would be nice, one sport/proto class; one mod. prod. big bore class; and a mod. prod. GTU class, only this time make it under three liters, in the old Mazda-Datsun battle arena.

The bottom field filling sport/proto cars have never really made much sense, or been very popular.
Bob

must be nice to have 'selective amnesia', Bob. I wish I could do that, but the past just keeps coming back, reminding me just why the GTP/GTO/GTU classes died the way they did.

Bring back the old rules and you bring back the old problems, with domination of the classes by the same manufacturers that were doing it then, only with better technology. It wasn't until the introduction of the WSC class that an american chassis builder was winning an american sportscar championship again, with the Riley & Scott Mk III, as during the Camel GT series the Ford Mustang/Probe GTP, Chevrolet Corvette GTP, or Chevrolet Intrepid never got close enough to unseat the Porsches, Nissans, or Toyotas.

Whistful thinking is nice, until you remember how it got to that point in the first place. Leave it alone, Roger. It could be worse.

[JAG]

Look to 2010, we could potentially have a top, coupe only, P1 class, smaller, open P2 cars and a single GT class, whether that be GT2, or a hybrid of that.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by jhansen

An interesting read.

Personally, I'd replace the word 'interesting' with the word 'alarming'.

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Personally, I'd replace the word 'interesting' with the word 'alarming'.

Which part is alarming?

[Flat12-Aircool]

1 Prototype class and 1 GT class? No thanks Roger...

I'm sure when LMP1 moves to Coupe only in a few years time then things will be more clearer.

I think Mr Penske must be having a lot more "Senior moments" these days to not know whats going on. I mean he has the luxury of having a Pit-box screen to look at, most fans have to find other ways to get that information.

And on a larger note if he thinks ALMS fans have it tough, then spare a thought for us Europeans. We don't even have the 3 light system on the side of the cars to indicate the leaders in each class.

It sounds to me he's in the wrong series, IMO his comments are more suited to Grand Am.

[Adam43]

I see nothing wrong with ACO based regs. However I also see nothing wrong with only one LMP class and one GT class, in an ideal world.

[jhansen]

If you could keep factory teams in P1 and GT1; and privateer teams in P2 and GT2 then I would be fine with the current system. But that's not going to be the case. I think, as Adam hints at, if you can have full grids with one prototype class and one GT class then it would be a good thing. I do think that fans would embrace that kind of format, with ACO type cars of course.

But I think Flat 12 has a good point, once the prototypes go the coupe route it will be a bit clearer. Of course you still have GT1 and GT2.

[cptkablamo]

As you say Bob, Mr Penske has already forgotten more about motorsport than anyone like me or you will ever know...

But also remember this is an ACO series and the ACO have been around for longer than even Mr Penske and I would have a guess that they know what they are doing.

Lets not forget that in coming in with the LMP2 class with a manufacturer supported car, he was the first to attempt to distroy the spirit of the class and now that they are making it hard for him to win outright again, he wants it changed so he is on a level playing field...I just do not think that is right...Yes he probably has some great ideas, but I think the way he has set them out there is wrong...

[Nick49]

Hello

Roger Penkse words smacks of "I want to join your club because its great but when I'm in I want to change it".

He is right to say that the ACO has created a package that caters for their race, the 24 Hours of Le Mans. I have often thought that the ALMS haven't done themselves any favours by running their races for 2 hours 45 minutes. I prefer the LMS because it is a proper endurance race format of 6 hours IMO. I also have to agree with previous posters that Porsche brought out their car to run in LMP2 for a year to run as a manufacturer entrant with the Penkse Organisation before selling it to privateers. Does he feel over shadowed by Audi's LMP1 class win?

The big problem with the ALMS is not so much the four classes but the lack of numbers overall. Europe has the LMS with big grids and a plethera of other national sport car series. Over here people see Le Mans as almost the whole reason for being in sports car racing (rightly or wrongly). It seems to me that the ALMS entrants don't see Le Mans as their big goal for competing in the ALMS. Porsche and Penske aren't going to be there for a second year running, probably to the relief of a lot of LMP2 runners . Does the USA have a ladder for sports cars drivers to move up?

I can understand the desire for a stable rules package but his last words reminds me of the good old days of Group C Sports Cars. Bring them back I say.

Nick

[Mal]

Reading the full article it is clear that Mr Penske also wants to go to Le Mans and also would prefer to be in LMP1, but using Porsches money. He says it is Porsches decision.

Clearly if there was only one prototype class, Porsche would be forced to build a car to compete with Audi or pull out.

A cynic would say that could be why Mr Penske is trying change the rules.

I say leave them as they are - the 4 class formula really works IMO and the ACO appears to be heading in the right direction.

I

[2112]

He could have solved the problem by joining Grand-Am instead of tearing down ALMS.

[JAG]

Looking to 2010 we will have (hopefully) a manufactuer and well funded privateer coupe class, so it is absolutely essential to retain the privateer friendly P2 class, without manufactuer influence.

However I think it's absolutly crazy to have the Corvette C6 and Aston Martin DB9 competing in a different class to the 911's, 430's and Panoz.

[Flat12-Aircool]

Originally Posted by 2112

He could have solved the problem by joining Grand-Am instead of tearing down ALMS.

Exactly, couldn't agree more!

[dj choc ice]

i couldnt agree more either if this happened it would completely destroy the ALMS "some people dont understand the classes" well in my eyes if you cant understand that there are simply four classes represented by 2/3 letters and a number you must be absolutely retarded and 1 LMP class means we would have slower cars and 1 GT class would mean slower cars and this would go down the usual route which is happening with the ACO at the moment of slowing things down and down and down until eventually noone would want to know about the ALMS and then we would have just grandAM in the US

[JAG]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

i couldnt agree more either if this happened it would completely destroy the ALMS "some people dont understand the classes" well in my eyes if you cant understand that there are simply four classes represented by 2/3 letters and a number you must be absolutely retarded and 1 LMP class means we would have slower cars and 1 GT class would mean slower cars and this would go down the usual route which is happening with the ACO at the moment of slowing things down and down and down until eventually noone would want to know about the ALMS and then we would have just grandAM in the US

What the ACO are doing is making clear performance distinctions between the classes, P1 has never been so quick!

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

i couldnt agree more either if this happened it would completely destroy the ALMS "some people dont understand the classes" well in my eyes if you cant understand that there are simply four classes represented by 2/3 letters and a number you must be absolutely retarded and 1 LMP class means we would have slower cars and 1 GT class would mean slower cars and this would go down the usual route which is happening with the ACO at the moment of slowing things down and down and down until eventually noone would want to know about the ALMS and then we would have just grandAM in the US

As a dedicated fan, it is very easy to say that the present four-class system is "easy" to follow and that anyone that cannot is "retarded." But, if you were a casual observer and showed up at a race, you would think that the C6Rs and 911s were competing against each other, and likewise the P1 and P2 cars. I see nothing wrong with allowing the sport to appeal to a greater audience. And I think this can be accomplished by retaining the current integrity of the rules. I can't understand why anyone would be opposed to that.

[Bob Riebe]

Classes are not so much a problem, as having same or similar car running in two classes.
These are the fast Corvettes, and these are the slow Corvettes; these are the fast Astons, and these are the slow Astons, not to mention the P classes.

If you want classes, then make the cars obviously physically different, to even some who know little of racing; not because some contrived rule makes them different in how they are restricted.

Those who say he should have gone to GARRA, outside of the horse power levels allowed then is little now that separates the two sanctiions.

[old man]

The comment on DSC from Doug Fehan brings up the point the point that Penske made about 1 class for GT racing. To quote:

If we can’t find a forum to race here that is consistent with our mission statement, which is to showcase the durability, reliability and performance of the Corvette, we need to go somewhere where we can,” outlined Doug Fehan.

It makes no sense for them to race in a class with 4 cars where the rules are changed to make it interesting. Far better to race in one combined GT class that mirrors the market place where people can buy from a wide range of GT super performance cars. It would not make sense either for ALMS to do this on their own, the ACO should do it and LMS and ALMS then follow (won't happen, no shortage of entries for the LM24). If we have GT1 Corvettes and GT2 Corvettes the poor inexpert spectator will be even more confused. If Penske and Fehan talk to each other and the organisers we may have progress, if not we may have an ALMS series without Corvette and what would that do to the crowd figures? Any comments from those of you in the USofA?

[broadrun96]

It took me all of about 3 races to understand and ANYBODY, in the US, new to the sport would only have to watch one race on CBS and be BOMBARDED with the ctach phrase "4 classes racing on the same track at the same time." I think I heard it a few thousand times in their last broadcast. But why would Penske want to eliminate the split P/GT classes except he is stating his push to get Porsche to step up and re-enforce and contemplate blowing the car to go up a class. He HAS to want to win it all and not be relegated to hoping for an Audi breakdown or another Mid-Ohio push to win a race outright. And from Porsche's side, why would they want to compete with a family company and have to burn the same resources twice to make competitive cars against the newer protoypes claimed to be in the pipelines? (yes i'm being hopeful here but there is a chance the Riley or Radical could do it and then the Peugeot) I can understand the "new" fan being confused for a few races but it's not that hard to understand within a decent amount of time.