The Porsche vs Ferrari (or Badger vs brielga) thread - Page 152

Gliding_Serpent · 13 Jun 2010, 15:45 (Ref:2711170)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayWolf

Because Corvette Racing and Risi were better than them and if it hasn't been for their mechanical failures and accidents Felbermayr would have not even finish on the podium.But that's racing, isn't it, not always the best win.
So my point is Felbermayr weren't the best team out there.

So by that logic... if we rewind to last year than clearly Felbermayr was the better car and Risi did not deserve to win since Felb went out due to mechanical when in a strong lead.

arakis · 13 Jun 2010, 15:53 (Ref:2711176)

felmbayer deserved the win, apsolutly, but like audi porsche has to step up their game next year because with the speed of the Ferrari and the corvette expecialy, they can't hope every year that they are gonna break down, because both the ferraris and corvettes have a nasty habit of finishing 24h races without any problems!

As always there are no, and there can be no excuses for losing, only ting that matters is who crosses the line at 3pm on june 13th first,
so nice one for porsche , and the record is nice as well, 997 vs 430 2-2, preaty much as it has been troughout their whole race life times,

Next year brings new things, the 458, I am not that sure that the 458 will be main contender for vicotry, simply because it will be new, but if porsche don't speed up next year corvettes are gonna run circles around them

GrayWolf · 13 Jun 2010, 15:58 (Ref:2711179)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gliding_Serpent

So by that logic... if we rewind to last year than clearly Felbermayr was the better car and Risi did not deserve to win since Felb went out due to mechanical when in a strong lead.

Yes, that's the way I see it

Dario911 · 13 Jun 2010, 16:54 (Ref:2711215)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

felmbayer deserved the win, apsolutly, but like audi porsche has to step up their game next year because with the speed of the Ferrari and the corvette expecialy, they can't hope every year that they are gonna break down, because both the ferraris and corvettes have a nasty habit of finishing 24h races without any problems!

As always there are no, and there can be no excuses for losing, only ting that matters is who crosses the line at 3pm on june 13th first,
so nice one for porsche , and the record is nice as well, 997 vs 430 2-2, preaty much as it has been troughout their whole race life times,

Next year brings new things, the 458, I am not that sure that the 458 will be main contender for vicotry, simply because it will be new, but if porsche don't speed up next year corvettes are gonna run circles around them

Porsche can be as fast as Ferrari, as shown in LMS and ALMS. But Le Mans in the last years has been a problem for Porsche reliability, so they've decided to improve car reliability, and not pure speed.
The best Porsche lap was only 4/10 slower than Ferrari's one, and you have to consider Porsche has had some front tyres troubles.
Porsche is the GT2 to beat: LMS, ALMS and Le Mans 24 Hours clearly show this.
Risi has raced with a bad strategy, and was not as fast&reliable as Corvette.
Risi has played all on the speed, but was less reliable than Vettes, and the gearbox has proven that.
Porsche was able to show quite the same Risi pace, when necessary (fastest laps are very close), but has been managed with more intelligence and has proven a full reliability.
There's not so much to be worried about Ferrari for Porsche. F430 in GT1 specs is less impressive than how they expected to be. Porsche is clearly better in the same spec.
It's Ferrari that must improve its next car to be close to the Porsche and to be competitive in GT2 class.
Numbers are now all on the Porsche side.

Congratulations to Corvette Racing, an impressive pace and race. I hope next year the challenge may be as long as 24 hours! Nice to have some opponents like them.

arakis · 13 Jun 2010, 17:01 (Ref:2711220)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dario911

Porsche was able to show quite the same Risi pace, when necessary (fastest laps are very close), but has been managed with more intelligence and has proven a full reliability.

the fastest lap by porsche was posted at a different time/ at better track conditions. porsche was aproximatly 2sec slower on lap speed every lap.

as for ferrari reliability, that car finished 6 endurance races in row, it was not its poor reliability but worst luck. they had a problem with a gearbox they never had in the 5 year history of the car

but am not aruging risi deserved to win!

airbusA346 · 13 Jun 2010, 17:15 (Ref:2711237)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

but am not aruging risi deserved to win!

lol

Tom.

HORNDAWG · 13 Jun 2010, 17:19 (Ref:2711240)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dario911

Congratulations to Corvette Racing, an impressive pace and race. I hope next year the challenge may be as long as 24 hours! Nice to have some opponents like them.

Was gutted by the final results. Congrats to Felbermayr*, Farnbacher* and BMS.

*provisional (?)

L.P.

airbusA346 · 13 Jun 2010, 17:22 (Ref:2711242)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Was gutted by the final results. Congrats to Felbermayr*, Farnbacher* and BMS.

*provisional (?)

L.P.

I wonder why it is provisional.

Tom.

arakis · 13 Jun 2010, 17:29 (Ref:2711251)

Concernant le contrôle des moteurs des 2 premières GT2
Cette demande entraîne les conséquences suivantes
Suspension du classement scratch �* partir de la 1ere GT2

or in english by google translate

Concerning the control of engines first 2 GT2
This application has the following consequences
Suspension of the overall classification from the first GT2

it would seem felmbayer and hancook are out, but that doesent change the manufacturer placings, its BMS Porsche, AF Ferrari, IMSA porsche

airbusA346 · 13 Jun 2010, 17:33 (Ref:2711254)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

Concernant le contrôle des moteurs des 2 premières GT2
Cette demande entraîne les conséquences suivantes
Suspension du classement scratch �* partir de la 1ere GT2

or in english by google translate

Concerning the control of engines first 2 GT2
This application has the following consequences
Suspension of the overall classification from the first GT2

it would seem felmbayer and hancook are out, but that doesent change the manufacturer placings, its BMS Porsche, AF Ferrari, IMSA porsche

Hmmm.... I can't get my head around that.

Tom.

arakis · 13 Jun 2010, 17:37 (Ref:2711256)

me either, although it would be nice if they expeled 77 and not hancook,

just kidding,

Victor_RO · 13 Jun 2010, 17:44 (Ref:2711262)

Quote:

Originally Posted by airbusA346

Hmmm.... I can't get my head around that.

Tom.

Stall test perhaps...

GrayWolf · 13 Jun 2010, 18:02 (Ref:2711280)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Stall test perhaps...

What's this about?

Victor_RO · 13 Jun 2010, 18:05 (Ref:2711284)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayWolf

What's this about?

Stall test = the engine is fired up, then the restrictor trumpets are plugged and, if the engine stops, it's okay. If the engine keeps running, you're in trouble because that means there's air coming into the engine through other openings.

GrayWolf · 13 Jun 2010, 19:21 (Ref:2711365)

I see and they do this after the race? Why after?!

Victor_RO · 13 Jun 2010, 19:24 (Ref:2711375)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayWolf

I see and they do this after the race? Why after?!

Because cars are checked for compliance before the race and after the race as well.

GrayWolf · 13 Jun 2010, 19:30 (Ref:2711382)

So is it official that BMS inherits the class win, any source of information ? Because Porsche's web site says nothing about this...

Victor_RO · 13 Jun 2010, 19:32 (Ref:2711385)

Nothing is official yet, results are suspended so far. No official announcement, so if the ACO does want to apply some penalty, both teams are pleading their case right now.

arakis · 14 Jun 2010, 15:40 (Ref:2711999)

well this was a bad year for gt2 endurance wise, only 3 cars didn't have any mechanical isues that were competitive!

the Felmbayer Porshe, Hancook Ferrari, and the AF ferrari(its delay as caused by a crash)

all the rest had serus mechanical isues

Corvette 64 engine troubles,
Corvette 63 crash related engine problems,
Risi 82 gear selection problems,
Risi 83 crash reletad engine problems
BMS engine problems,
IMSA transmision and cluch problems
Lizards crash related engine problems

and the felmbayer and Prospeed cars were too slow to break anything,

This is not good in my opinion, since the gt2 class used to be a class were cars rearly broke down

911targa · 15 Jun 2010, 02:11 (Ref:2712323)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

well this was a bad year for gt2 endurance wise, only 3 cars didn't have any mechanical isues that were competitive!

the Felmbayer Porshe, Hancook Ferrari, and the AF ferrari(its delay as caused by a crash)

all the rest had serus mechanical isues

Corvette 64 engine troubles,
Corvette 63 crash related engine problems,
Risi 82 gear selection problems,
Risi 83 crash reletad engine problems
BMS engine problems,
IMSA transmision and cluch problems
Lizards crash related engine problems

and the felmbayer and Prospeed cars were too slow to break anything,

This is not good in my opinion, since the gt2 class used to be a class were cars rearly broke down

yes,the most surprising thing is no ALMS GT2 finished,besides BMS from FIA GT2(only 24h Spa this year)all the finishers are from LMS.
Neik Hommerson also had a spin and crashed LMS #75(not their own #98) this time,the rear bodywork doesnt looks good and they need to do some repairing work to the car after race,surely that's too bad for Westbrook and Holzer

911targa · 15 Jun 2010, 02:22 (Ref:2712331)

and at present,997 race 4 years with 2 win,ferrari 5 years 2 win,porsche do better at lemans.
but on the other hand,you do well in 24h Spa,997 and 430 both race 4 times,ferrari win 3,no matter who won this year it's 430 better in Belgium
never mention how bad luck,both manufactors suffered enough...

anyway Lietz is the only porsche driver won twice during the fighting between 430 and 997,he won 2007event with IMSA and this time with proton

Jonerz · 15 Jun 2010, 05:21 (Ref:2712366)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

well this was a bad year for gt2 endurance wise, only 3 cars didn't have any mechanical isues that were competitive!

Peugeot pushed the diesel envelope further and further, stressing their engines as the ACO choked them back believing that they needed to be the fastest machines to beat Audi. Audi built a car that was never fast enough at 10/10ths to compete with Peugeot over one lap, but close enough to keep the pressure on, and reliably and consistently keep that pressure on. What happened? The Pugs broke because they pushed the envelope too far. (Unless I am mistaken and some bad batch of turbos, or bad machining was responsible for the failures at Le Mans.)

There is no doubt that GT2 is seeing at least the same amount of pressure and speed of development from the factories. Ferrari went with more power this year, Corvette came in guns a-blazing and they pushed to the point of failure. Porsche won the way Porsches have one in the past, by being bullet-proof. Endurance in endurance racing is quite important.

Chris

Dario911 · 15 Jun 2010, 09:56 (Ref:2712473)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

well this was a bad year for gt2 endurance wise, only 3 cars didn't have any mechanical isues that were competitive!

the Felmbayer Porshe, Hancook Ferrari, and the AF ferrari(its delay as caused by a crash)

all the rest had serus mechanical isues

Corvette 64 engine troubles,
Corvette 63 crash related engine problems,
Risi 82 gear selection problems,
Risi 83 crash reletad engine problems
BMS engine problems,
IMSA transmision and cluch problems
Lizards crash related engine problems

and the felmbayer and Prospeed cars were too slow to break anything,

This is not good in my opinion, since the gt2 class used to be a class were cars rearly broke down

Ehm... the fastest GT2 was Corvette, with an astonishing best lap: 3'58"384.
Risi's fastest lap has been 3'59"152.
Felbermayr's fastest lap has been 3'59"542.
Corvette was on another planet, while Porsche and Ferrari were on the same level: 4/10 of difference are not so much you are preaching...
The only difference is the Felbermayr has raced with more intelligent, don't pushing from the first to the eighth hour.
The car had the same potential speed, but Felbermayr has been more prudent don't risk to be the fastest on the track in GT2 class.
Risi has been helped in its comeback by the safety car, that has compact the cars...
but then have forget it was not Le Mans 8 Hours, but it was still a 24 hours...
Felbermayr has done a consistent race, and has shown its highest pace only when necessary.
Le Mans is still a race you win with strategy and intelligent, not only with pure speed...

I find very funny all the ways you are trying to say between the lines that Felbermayr was not fast.
I think you should only have to admit it was fast when it was necessary. It was a 24 hours race...

arakis · 15 Jun 2010, 11:35 (Ref:2712509)

porsche was nowere near bulet proof, only the felmbayer car had no problems, all the other porsches had mechanical issues,

on the other hand both AF corse and Farnbacher cars had apsolutly no isues.

and the felmbayer car was 2 sec off the pace of the ferrari

Ferrari and corvettes set their fastest laps during the first few hours, while felmbayer set their fastest lap during optimal conditions! are you trying to say that is the same

as for them wining from what i hear itis under question so lets wait for the result first

Spyderman · 15 Jun 2010, 11:53 (Ref:2712520)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

and the felmbayer car was 2 sec off the pace of the ferrari

Please lay off the battery acid! In your dreams!

Check the lap times.

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