Amateurs

[pink69]

Wht are GT grids full of amateur racers? Where do they come from. How come that any old Charlie can race for a top team like Lister, yet proper race drivers like Julian Bailey can't because they ain't got the cash. I think iy's tupid how firms give sponsorship to someone, when really the proper driver should get the money. I'll be happy when all these amateurs are gone. they are way out of their depth!

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by pink69
Wht are GT grids full of amateur racers? Where do they come from. How come that any old Charlie can race for a top team like Lister, yet proper race drivers like Julian Bailey can't because they ain't got the cash. I think iy's tupid how firms give sponsorship to someone, when really the proper driver should get the money. I'll be happy when all these amateurs are gone. they are way out of their depth!

Hmmm. I suspect the reality Pink is that it's your "Charlies" that actually keep sports car racing going, in many respects. Many teams haven't got the money to hire professional drivers and rely upon the paying amateurs ("gentlemen", "Charlies" - call them what you will) to bring in the cash so that the team can run the cars.

There's nothing new about this, it's been going on for years. What amazes me is why companies throw money at F1 when everyone knows how bad F1 is in terms of spectacle!

Just bear in mind Pink that if all the amateurs did go, the majority of sports car racing would probably "go" with them.

[cybersdorf]

Money doesn't just talk - it also drives racecars. It's always been that way, unfortunately.

How about Springer/Knapfield - sounds like a good line-up, no?

[Osella]

It's not like as if Lister's roadcar sales could support the raceteam, is it?

[SL]

Well you might be a little wrong there, Lister do run quite a good Jag dealership, adding mods as required. There are quite a few XJ's etc about with a discreet 'Lister' badge on them. It might not support a team but it keeps Mr Pearce happy.

Simon

[Osella]

I sit corrected! I actually wanted them to win (Babini in a Belmondo Viper didn't really make it onto the list of things likely enough to be worth hoping for) but was quite happy with the result!

[pink69]

What baffles me is why do they have the sponsorship? Why don't these firms sponsor actual drivers? That is what annoyies me most.

[Truckosaurus]

Most of the gentleman drivers own the firms who are the sponsors eg M. Chereau and his lorry trailer business.

[Osella]

Presumably some of these guys own several of the firms sponsoring the cars! The running costs of something like a Lister must be pretty steep really. It's a pity we're not going to see them at LM becausethey know a thing or two about GT cars. In this year's FIA GT championship I think they're the ones to beat, with or without gentlemnly driving, and not the Larbre Viper.

[the18racer]

I may be an "amateur" but without the likes of me there would be no show for you to watch. As far as being "out of my depth"...well, that's a matter of opinion. Given your date of birth I don't expect that you compete or even drive (forgive me if I'm wrong on this) but until you've sat in a racing car yourself, do't rush to judgement on others who spend extremely large sums of money in order to participate in our wonderful sport. Granted, there are one or two out there who can be a liability; I race against them all the time. It's a fact of life and we as competitors have to put up with it.
I speak as a team owner and driver (GT, historic GP amongst others). As they said in "The Right Stuff", "No bucks, no Buck Rogers".

[Speedworx]

Springer didn't hurt their race chances in France.

[Osella]

And to drive a GT car in an International race you need a pretty good licence, too- an International "A" one step down from a SuperLicence, is that right?

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by the18racer
I may be an "amateur" but without the likes of me there would be no show for you to watch. As far as being "out of my depth"...well, that's a matter of opinion. Given your date of birth I don't expect that you compete or even drive (forgive me if I'm wrong on this) but until you've sat in a racing car yourself, do't rush to judgement on others who spend extremely large sums of money in order to participate in our wonderful sport. Granted, there are one or two out there who can be a liability; I race against them all the time. It's a fact of life and we as competitors have to put up with it.
I speak as a team owner and driver (GT, historic GP amongst others). As they said in "The Right Stuff", "No bucks, no Buck Rogers".

Nice to have the balancing opinion, "18". For what it's worth, I entirely agree with you. As far as Le Mans is concerned, it wouldn't be the same without the smaller teams running "amateur" drivers. I just wish I had the money to be one of them........

[the18racer]

To get an International "C" or "B" is quite straightforward.It doesn't really vouch for your ability.
You are right, though , Ays. Le mans wouldn't be the same. I speak as a businessman i.e. team owner, and an "amateur" as a driver. And it's not just sportscars where this happens. Does anyone believe Alex Yoong got his bum in the Minardi on sheer talent alone?

[Osella]

How much does a Knapfield or Springer pay for their drive, roughly?

[27tim]

Osella, I heard that a seat would be yours in British GTs all in for about 150k GBP for a seat in a Lister. As for licence you need a International B for LeMans. Which is partially based on results to aquire IIRC. Apart from that an International C would see you okay most events, getting one of those requires signatures from a minimum of 13 races. <10 national b, 3 national a>

Pink69, I would guess you haven't raced and don't know how it works. You don't get to drive unless you got the bucks. Most sponsorship deals are brought into the team by the amatuer drivers, which are in turn run on the back of their own business, with the deal taking the form 'You sponsor my racing and I'll put XXX amount of business your way' etc.

I'll be happy when all these amateurs are gone. they are way out of their depth!

When they are gone so will be British GTs!

Autosport ran a article on Jamie CW the other day in which it talked him right up but gave his team mate a slagging. Fair enough the guy isn't a pro, but thats no reason to denegrate him to the extent they did, after all if it wasn't for him bankrolling the car JCW wouldn't get a drive in the first place. Everyday of the week the guy is a damn site faster than the Jorno. that wrote the article...

Ah well, enough *****ing. Its easy to sit back and knock ppl that aren't at the front, but the front is a tough place to be, go and try it for yourself before judging others too harshly IMHO.

[Adam43]

I've been reading this thread over the last couple of weeks and I think most of the points I would make have been made.

There simple wouldn't be many teams and seats available for pro drivers if the amateurs didn't put the money in. And because most of the cars would disappear of the grid then all these series would fail too.

There is no reason to complain. A driver with more talent will always have an advantage, so the best driver/team combination will still get to the top.

In the (good) old days people used to buy a car and take it racing. I think there was something romantic about these amateurs. The situation has changed slightly. No longer can you just buy a car, but you need a very professional team. In principle it is the same.

Good on 'em, I say! Most of them do a damn fine job. And most have more character and passion for the sport than many a professional driver.

[touringlegend]

I would guess these "amateurs" are businessmen who make quite a bit of money and want a bit of excitement for their money with all that power. I think GT's will be relatively cheap compared to what the less powerful Touring Cars are to run.

[Osella]

If i could afford to run/finance a team I surely would! I think I'd only drive if a)it didn't scare me and b) I was any good

[Fab]

Originally posted by Osella
I think I'd only drive if a)it didn't scare me

I went one time as a passenger in a Porsche GT for two laps on a track, I won't do it again... there's a movie where you can see me going out the car and taking my helmet off : I'm green !

In fact, I made the two laps with my eyes shut, after the pilot said to me "don't worry, everything is under control, we'll take next curve at 250 km/h...". I was sure I was going to die...

He told me, during the meal after, that he started as a passenger as well, on the Bugatti track, and said the same thing : "never again". But he eventualy did, and became a gentleman driver in GT races... and he doesn't drive daily, he hasn't even got his licence ! (rich man with a "chauffeur")

[Osella]

cool!