Club Duratec Sampler Day 18th August Castle Combe

[nponting]

I drove the car on Thursday......the engine is good, lots of torque and looks like it is going to be a good little championship!

Any photos of the car testing??

[RobHall35]

Having driven the car on Thursday it seems to be a useful package and could well be an alternative to the Kent engine if enough people support it and is probably the way the UK Formula Ford Championship should have gone in 2006.

If they don’t then we need to make the Kent engine more reliable, the parts are out there to do it they just need homologating for the UK. This has already started with steel cranks and the new blocks but needs taking further. None of these parts need give a power advantage but should give more reliability.

Kent FF1600 has been and still is one of the best single seater formulas in the world but one way or another we have to move forward and Club Duratec is an option.

[roger orgee]

CASTLE COMBE TEST DAY CLUB DURATEC 18th AUGUST 2011

List of drivers
Ben Anderson Autosport Magazine test driver, F Vee driver
Roger Orgee Currently 4th Castle Combe FF1600 Championship RF00
Will Thorling ex Superkart driver and Skip Barber pupil
Nick Ponting ex Ginetta sport cars and FBMW
Rob Hall Currently leading Castle Combe FF1600 Championship Swift
Tom Barrow Saxon Motorsport, 2010 Combe FF1600 Championship Mygale

Would you believe it, it was wet, in fact very wet, and so bad that everyone waited to see who would go out first!

Luckily Castle Combe had given us the Strawford Centre to operate from so we were all dry except for the drivers and Kevin Mills’ hard working mechanics.
So thanks to CCRC for that and Alan Cooper for giving up his racing school
Berth for a damp transporter.

Roger Orgee jnr (who??) was the guinea pig and ventured out in his regular FF1600 Van Diemen RF00 just to see if it was safe. 3 laps and a “front row” wet time gave us a clue on how the day was going to progress, especially with two of the top four CCRC FF1600 championship contenders on hand.

Ben Anderson then did a 10 lap stint in the FF1600 to establish a benchmark
to measure the Duratec car against. Meanwhile Roger scrubbed in some Avon
tyres on the Club Duratec RF06, fun that in the pouring rain!

Ben then ran a really sensible ten lap stint in the RF06 Club Duratec car and impressed us all by staying on the tarmac, but getting quicker lap after lap.

Kevin’s lads worked superbly by fitting in and running Nick Ponting and Will Thorling up to lunch, where we all ran happily to the Tavern restaurant to warm
Up (in August?)

Following lunch it had stopped raining, well nearly, and Saxon Motorsport’s Tom Barrow had a much quicker run, without incident and came back impressed.

Then the fun (and banter!) started in earnest as current CCRC FF1600 Championship leader, Rob Hall, took to the track with pleas of “don’t bend it” ringing in his (deaf) ears. We were then treated to ten impressive laps as the circuit began to dry a little.

Luckily Ed Moore, ex FF1600 Champion and currently 5th in this year’s series
was running hard in his 2011 Ray FF1600 and gave us a benchmark to compare the two cars against. Each time Rob knocked off a faster lap, so did Ed with
the difference being around a second per lap in the Duratec’s favour.

Racing drivers are a competitive bunch so Roger Orgee jnr then hopped in, to cries of “one minute twenty eight seconds” to beat from his mate Rob.
Roger then obliged with a blistering set of ten laps finishing on one minute twenty five, exactly as predicted, as the track was drying. Ed Moore conveniently kept up the pressure and the gap remained constant.

By this time Autosport’s Ben Anderson was looking a little wistful as his runs were virtually under water, so we offered him another session which he accepted
a bit too quickly for my liking. On a rapidly drying track Ben really took off and went even quicker than the other two, again keeping just ahead of Ed’s times in the Ray.

So, not a hint of a mechanical problem all day, just kept putting petrol in, just as it should be. We await Ben’s official review but all were satisfied the concept works really well especially the Premier Power Duratec engine’s response and torque combined with the car’s neutral handling (lighter engine = less oversteer?).

Thanks to all who took part, to run that many laps in the wet without mishap is
a compliment to your driving, Kevin’s preparation and Stuart’s engine.
A special thanks to Combe for allowing us to put on this test, if anyone else wants to try the car we will be delighted to organize another sampler day

Since the test we have been contacted by two teams who are going to build a car
one from an existing pair of MSA Duratec chassis and the other from scratch using all FF1600 components so that the car can be converted to either formula, clever that. Also Will Thorling’s looking for a car after his run at Combe

Finally, we have been approached by a well known racing supply company to discuss sponsoring the series next year, guess what I said!

[Will Thorling]

Hi folks,

I've been waiting years to get on track and finally have a bit of a budget. Formula Ford was the first place I looked. Initially I liked the idea of Kents - been around for ever, plenty of parts, lots of experts to provide advice and so on.

Then I went to a few meetings. Blow-ups was what I saw. I've seen some of the earlier posts and I can tell you that the Kents really did put this newbee off. The engineer in me decided (rightly or not) that a 40 year old engine is just that. I can't afford any rebuilds during a season, nor a spare. I'm no mechanic either so the thought of a more reliable, modern-engined entry-level class appeals. I just want to get in and go.

If the Honda-concept was allowed over here then I'd do that, but in the absence of that, this Duratec idea floats my boat.

I was at the taster day and really liked the car. Power was nice, plenty of low-down torque. If it gets some wider acceptance I would go for that over a Kent. I'd need to find a bit more cash to buy the Duratec than buying an old kent, but I reckon it would be worth it as in the long run my costs would be lower.

Cheers to Roger & Co for letting me in the car.

Will

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by Will Thorling

I'd need to find a bit more cash to buy the Duratec than buying an old kent, but I reckon it would be worth it as in the long run my costs would be lower.

Are you sre you are allowing for resale values and depreciation?? I think perhaps not.

[JNWRF01]

How much you think a second hand club dura tech is going to cost ? Or a conversion kit?

[pd88]

Originally Posted by JNWRF01

How much you think a second hand club dura tech is going to cost ? Or a conversion kit?

I guess looking at the Duratec results for the past few years; the Mygale is the car to beat; FCS (Alan) can always lay his hands on one, rolling chassis £14,000 + or with engine from £16,000 plus conversion to club spec; the problem for me is, I will need a car for each foot, as there is no way I can fit in one

[Triple J Motorsport]

ecu convertion is £100 plus a set of ACB10s

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by Triple J Motorsport

ecu convertion is £100 plus a set of ACB10s

How would the ECU conversion be so cheap? The ECU and loom for a 'standard' 150BHP (maybe 160BHP?) Duratec engine is about £2000, so £100 seems insanely cheap - unless, because you already had a Duratec engine, you could remap the stock unit without having to replace.

http://www.skyford.co.uk/performance/motorsport/duratec

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by barnettracing

How would the ECU conversion be so cheap? The ECU and loom for a 'standard' 150BHP (maybe 160BHP?) Duratec engine is about £2000, so £100 seems insanely cheap - unless, because you already had a Duratec engine, you could remap the stock unit without having to replace.

http://www.skyford.co.uk/performance/motorsport/duratec

Or exchange your existing ECU for a remapped one?

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by barnettracing

How would the ECU conversion be so cheap? The ECU and loom for a 'standard' 150BHP (maybe 160BHP?) Duratec engine is about £2000, so £100 seems insanely cheap - unless, because you already had a Duratec engine, you could remap the stock unit without having to replace.

http://www.skyford.co.uk/performance/motorsport/duratec

Exactly that you remap / exchange the existing ECU or a new ECU only is about £200 I believe.

Skyford current one is insanely expensive mountune manufactured originally I believe same as the exhaust system I am told.

[fordengine]

The situation regarding ECUs for Club Duratec would be this. If someone is buying a current Duratec race car, the car will be fitted with a Life Racing ECU, an F88. This would need to be unlocked and reprogrammed with our map. The cost of doing this is £400.00. The ECU would then be returned with the de-tuned engine to the customer with a secure ECU. The ECU would not be able to have its fuel or ignition maps altered, but drivers and teams would be able to access the built in data logger to view the entire engine and associated car sensor values.
If someone is looking at converting a car to Duratec or building a new one then we are looking at being able to supply a different Life Racing ECU, an F42 with the same map as the F88. The current retail price of these ECUs is £950.00 but if there is enough interest then we would look at bulk buying these to reduce the costs. Both ECUs feature the built in data loggers and there will be no performance difference between the two ECUs. The reason for choosing the F42 ECU is to reduce costs over the older, but still current F88’s. Wiring looms for the two ECUs would be the same except the ECU connection plug, which is different on either ECU.
The Life Racing ECUs have proved to be very robust and reliable in the National Championship.

[pd88]

Shame about the write up in autosport; I thought it could have been used to put over a much stronger case for the club Dutatec???

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by pd88

Shame about the write up in autosport; I thought it could have been used to put over a much stronger case for the club Dutatec???

I think what author Ben Anderson is doing is putting a fair case either side and opening up the debate to a wider audience. I wouldn't expect him to come down on one side or the other.

The fact of the matter is that Club FF1600 Kent, for all it's glorious history, is no longer a place where you could recommend a young driver demonstrate his abilities unless you were fortunate enough to hire a car with a proven "stonking" engine from an experienced team or buy a championship winning car with one already installed. FF1600 stalwarts will tell you any problems are the driver or the chassis, not the engine. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. These days that's not good enough.

The disparity in engine performance is amplified by the diminished gene pool. When there was a couple of hundred cars running in various championships each weekend then it wasn't so noticeable, and without data loggers and all the other stuff we take for granted these days nobody really noticed.

Except of course "Patch" won 4 Festivals with different drivers and the 711M block was the one to have....Now, you try to get a top engine builder to build you a winning Kent engine from scratch and an honest one will tell you not to bother. In a grid of 30 Duratecs I doubt you'd find as much as 2% variation in engine power.

So I think, although I will always have a soft spot for the Kent engine it's time that it really should be pensioned off.

If you haven't seen it this article from RCE early last year refers.

http://www.number66.net/simulating-f...-with-rfactor/