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5 Sep 2012, 13:43 (Ref:3131273) | #101 | ||
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And I agree and have said the same as Tim...Change it...if you want Change...Change it.
I even offerd to set up the meeting once....no one replied!! ha ha Get ya committee together ....start the ball rolling remember...someone once told us we would never get a six hour race offf the ground.....I say no more x |
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Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
5 Sep 2012, 20:28 (Ref:3131572) | #102 | ||||||||
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@ Claire
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@ Lancbreaker. Quote:
@ Tim, if you don't like my posts just stop reading them OK its not an obligation you know. |
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You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter! |
5 Sep 2012, 20:33 (Ref:3131575) | #103 | |||
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Xxx love ya still heaps Al xx |
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Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
5 Sep 2012, 20:40 (Ref:3131581) | #104 | |||
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You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter! |
5 Sep 2012, 20:43 (Ref:3131582) | #105 | ||
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Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
5 Sep 2012, 21:07 (Ref:3131592) | #106 | ||
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Look for starters this was not my idea, I am not on any committee and knew nothing about it till a few days ago when I read about it here and on the club Facebook page but as I understand it, its aimed at the real budget end of the market more or less standard cars with limited suspension upgrades, standard engines or at standard least cams and blueprinted, and uprated brake pads and discs and thats it. They have already had enquires from guys who are sick of the spending runaway in some of the other 'similar' series thats been mentioned so who knows maybe there is a call for something like this, its sufficientaly different and you should be able to prepare a car for a grand or so if you were on a real budget, a sort of PBMBMW series but allowing a full range of cars that are worth Jack all on the road. Maybe with the current bdget constrains there is a need for something like this.
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5 Sep 2012, 22:47 (Ref:3131662) | #107 | ||
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On October 8th at Castle Combe there's an open saloon car race for £99 entry, plus £25 day membership of Castle Combe Racing Club, is anyone on here doing it? Can't knock that for value, if cheap racing is your game, then this should be the answer to your prayers. Vote with your wheels if you want cheaper race entries.
Same day, I'm doing a duathlon, running and cycling, that's £40 entry fee so the Combe race isn't that much more in the grand scheme of things. It will be interesting to see which attracts more interest - the cheap race meeting or the expensive run. My feeling is that the cost of entries isn't the sole factor keeping grids low. Karting entry fees at Clay are £45 and the grids have been noticeably thinner these days. Life is changing, there are competing things to do with your time other than spend weeks preparing a car, traipsing across the country every other weekend for the privilege of being bossed around for a day, in return for which you get 15 minutes of action! My personal perfect calendar would comprise about four or five top quality (possibly expensive) weekends with as much track time as possible on a challenging circuit. If I have spent a grand of my hard earned cash on a weekend entertainment, I expect to be treated a bit better than at some events I've been to over the past few years! IMHO this is the attitude that is reducing the number of competitors more than the entry fee itself. |
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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
6 Sep 2012, 00:22 (Ref:3131709) | #108 | ||
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Certainly good value, Max, if you are somewhere near that part of the world...who's running / promoting it?...'cos they should be shouting it from the rooftops to get a full entry and prove the value point
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Richard Murtha: You don't stop racing because you are too old, you get old when you stop racing! But its looking increasingly likely that I've stopped.....have to go back to rallying ;) |
6 Sep 2012, 06:47 (Ref:3131793) | #109 | ||
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Castle Combe Racing Club of course, well known for championing the competitor. Further west still, the Welsh Sports and Saloon Championship at Pembrey has a money back scheme which has enticed more than a few entries this year. I think a friend of mine got basically 50% back but I may be talking out my rear here. Certainly worth supporting such series that are helping competitors if cost is your driving factor.
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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
6 Sep 2012, 07:06 (Ref:3131803) | #110 | ||
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I agree, how are we meant to find these things out, could this be one of the clubs (in general not just CCRC) problems. Btw I bet its not open to bigger engines cars. I am giving the next four meetings I could do a miss (sadly voting with my feet as has been suggested above) and planning to do races at the Combe Historic Festival so yet again another tiny loss for the clubs I would have raced with
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6 Sep 2012, 09:41 (Ref:3131891) | #111 | |||
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Don't be "sad" for the clubs you "would" have raced with. Sometimes we need to be selfish, do what pleases US and not what helps the club out. Sounds so hard doesn't it? But if we don't we won't get organisers asking "Why are our entries down?" and without that nothing will change except the volume of the grumbling. I only heard about the race through a Facebook post, it would be wise to check with the management.... |
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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
6 Sep 2012, 10:18 (Ref:3131902) | #112 | ||
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It will be with Bernie's V8's so probably two races at least anyhow.
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You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter! |
6 Sep 2012, 12:22 (Ref:3131986) | #113 | |||
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All thats going to happen is another set of diluted grids and we're back again to moaning of not enough people to race against on track, and higher entry fees to compensate for the lack of a full grid. And thus we are back again to the start of the discussion! and repeat... |
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6 Sep 2012, 12:32 (Ref:3131996) | #114 | ||
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Maybe some members like to belong to and want to race with the CTCRC have you concidered that. I think we should all wait till there are more details of the proposals and I stress proposals as I am sure if there is no interest it will be shelved anyhow but at least see whats on offer. I dunno maybe the future is alternative fuel car racing who knows, just some out of the box thinking needs to happen and quick.
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You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter! |
6 Sep 2012, 12:41 (Ref:3132000) | #115 | |||
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x You say that you want a debate about Motorsport and "its long overdue" when you get one, you slag me off for it?????????????? if you dont like a debate dont ask for one, if you dont want to hear other peoples opinions Al, you cannot expect them to respect yours. I honestly think this thread should be renamed....its unfair to The BRSCC (I have no commitment to them but think its wrong that their name is in the title, but this "discussion" is not about them anymore) and should be renamed as suggested by Chezza |
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Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
6 Sep 2012, 12:55 (Ref:3132006) | #116 | |||
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This thread should probably be in Racers' forum, but I'll leave it here for the moment. |
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This planet is mildly noted for its hoopy casinos. |
6 Sep 2012, 13:49 (Ref:3132025) | #117 | ||
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Claire, on a previous page Al was complimenting you and your efforts with the 360 club so not fair to totally berate on this forum . . . . I think the debate has been interesting but as there's only been a couple of significant contributors - who have views at the opposite ends of the spectrum, it may appear like conflict.
For what it's worth my view is this. As many on here know, I'm in the Motorsport Insurance game, insuring from F1 down to grassroots and I visit race circuits every week of the year, and so know abit about the UK racing scene. At grassroots level, I love the amount of choice I have to race my CRX in the UK - I mainly choose the CSCC, but have raced with the 360 Club and the Alfa's (!) this year, added to that I could do Trackday Trophy, Project 8, SE Tin Tops, Nippon etc etc. Choice & variety is good at my (grassroots) level of the sport. Granted there are alot of series, but all those mentioned have healthy grids, and so demand must be there. I do think that organising clubs should task their Series with maintaining minimum grid numbers - incentivising them and rewarding them if they exceed (as the Welsh club over at Pembury are now doing), but applying penalties or ending series if they don't. There's nothing wrong with new series being set up - if the demand is there - but how many series actually wind up each year - not enough. Organising clubs must take more responsiblity - they (largely) appear to be out of touch with (financial & competitor) reality at the moment My (bigger) issue is with the next level above grassroots - where the budgets are £25k - £80k per season to run. It makes no sense that series like Intersteps, Production Trophy, Saker Challenge, Smart Cars, Ferrari Open, Aston Martin GT4 Challenge can continue to attract the numbers they do and appeal to competitors, sponsors and spectators. I read this week that GT Cup have canned their next race meeting due to low numbers. Well done them. My belief is that its not neccessarily the number of race series available which is the issue - room for lots of guys like me doing it for fun on £5k a year - its the lack of a sensible motorsport ladder/progression in the Country. Going from £5k a year to £25k a year causes the issues - there will always be grassroot drivers and always be the super rich drivers (BGT / Britcar) but the middle band are the ones feeling the financial pinch at the moment & this is where motorsport options need to be culled IMHO. |
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Out with the Alfa 33 & in with the Honda CRX |
6 Sep 2012, 14:56 (Ref:3132035) | #118 | ||
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Why should I appologise Claire, I have made a statement of fact I am sorry if you cannot agree with that. All these things water down the pot its as easy as that sorry if you disagree. BTW I am and was quite calm thank you. And Claire can you tell me precisely where I have slagged you off as this breaks the rules of the forum and I dont think I have done that.
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6 Sep 2012, 20:27 (Ref:3132185) | #119 | ||
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I can't see how this can be "solved" at club / competitor level.
1. The UK has the most diverse and the best club motorsport in the world. However, I think it's now too thinly spread with too many clubs and massive overlap in series type / races. Quality has now been diluted to the extent that spectators (if there were any in the first place) and many marshals are put off. A dangerous spiral where enjoyment levels are dipping. Given the current economic climate, the product has to be focused and real value. 2. If clubs aren't getting good grids, then it's either not being marketed properly or simply isn't wanted by the competitors. Is it more complicated than that? I find it bizarre that some organisers don't / can't consider competitors as customers. Something that officials also need to remember, me included... Some clubs / organisers are bound to lose significant revenue / go under, and I don't find that surprising in the current climate. Just surprised that this hasn't happened already... Perhaps they still don't consider it within their remit, or perhaps they don't consider it a problem, but change can only be driven from the governing body.. From a personal perspective it would be great to race, but can't be justified (and I don't consider myself poor).. But I'm off hillclimbing a road car this weekend, to many that's exceptionally poor "£ per mile" - although a great day out, very relaxed and what I can afford. |
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7 Sep 2012, 08:27 (Ref:3132381) | #120 | |||
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7 Sep 2012, 09:44 (Ref:3132415) | #121 | ||
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I've been a motor-racing fan for most of my life. A spectator from the late 60's whenever I could persuade my dad or sisters boyfriend to take me, spectating more often from the mid-70's onwards.
I've competed (Mini Se7en & Modified Saloons in 82 & 83), and then worked for a BTCC team from 1987. I've also been to a number of overseas events too. So, I've seen things from a number of different perspectives. Over the years there have been a number of changes. When I first started spectating, the circuits earned enough revenue from having race meetings most weekends, plus a little bit more income from small industrial units (OK, mostly shacks and old stables in those days!). Nowadays it's just not financially viable to have a huge piece of land like that which isn't used more often, hence the need for track days and corporate events to be rune when there's no racing. (Adding to this of course there are the increasing 'environmental pressures' from NIMBY's who have bought or built property's next to the circuit, then complained about the noise!) The cost of competing has increased for a number of reasons. Safety legislation has meant that the cars have to have more costly equipment installed, plus I am sure that the organising clubs are facing increasing insurance costs due to the 'no win no pay' legal claim culture that we now have. On top of all of this we are currently in a recession, meaning that potential spectators have less spare cash (or are less willing to risk spending their spare cash) to go and watch races. Potential competitors are in the same boat financially too, meaning that their appearances are being restricted for the same reasons. Therefore one of the problems that then organising clubs face is in ensuring their own revenue, so if they see what appears to be a successful race championship, if they can create something similar, maybe this will lead to the competitors in that championship will defect to theirs, thereby increasing the income to that club. Finally I'm going to be a bit controversial here and say that the competitors have to decide if they'd rather race for the fun & excitement of racing (so they're not bothered about how many spectators there are), of if they want to show off in front of a load of people (including getting exposure for their sponsors), meaning that higher profile meetings are important to tem. The reason that I say this is that for the first time in years I went to watch a couple of mates racing in the BMW Compact Cup a month or so ago. This was a 750 MC meeting with well subscribed grids, a great atmosphere in the paddock, but not many spectators. (Most appeared to be like me, there to watch their mates having a good time). |
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7 Sep 2012, 09:47 (Ref:3132416) | #122 | |||
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Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
7 Sep 2012, 16:11 (Ref:3132552) | #123 | ||
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[QUOTE=Dan Friel;3132185]I can't see how this can be "solved" at club / competitor level.
1. The UK has the most diverse and the best club motorsport in the world. However, I think it's now too thinly spread with too many clubs and massive overlap in series type / races. Quality has now been diluted to the extent that spectators (if there were any in the first place) and many marshals are put off. A dangerous spiral where enjoyment levels are dipping. Given the current economic climate, the product has to be focused and real value. Spot on Dan. Too many championships and series, too many classes and regulations for cars to be built to. If I mention Hotrod or Stockcar racing on here most of you will turn your nose up and think its nothing more that some rough half brother that you want nothing to do with but be could learn ALOT from them. There are tracks all over the country but only about five or six main formulas that all run to the same rules that means you can travel about or stay put and enjoy a good race with other in machines that are equal. The formulas cater for all budgets too: National Hot Rods or F1 Stockcars - Top of the sport, decent car will set you back about 30K 2 litre Hot Rods or F2 Stockcars - Next level down and more affordable, a good hotrod would still cost 8-10k new. Stockrods or 1300cc Stockcars, For the driver on a budget. Cars cost about 2.5K for a decent one. Rookie rods. Real entry level stuff, basic safety equipment and road going tyres. Ok its not everyones cup of tea but at least everyone knows where they are and they fill the staduims with paying public. T.V coverage? Some of it yep, premier sports and a few years ago Gears and Tears done a great job for them. |
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Racing is life. Everything else is just waiting. |
8 Sep 2012, 08:50 (Ref:3132833) | #124 | ||
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http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...11#post3132011
I put this on another thread 26 I agree with VIVA GT also when I started racing there was not a lot else open on sundays so for me it was racing or church ! Last edited by GORDON STREETER; 8 Sep 2012 at 08:56. |
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Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
8 Sep 2012, 14:23 (Ref:3132904) | #125 | ||
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My main costs when racing are the price of fuel, this is not going to get any cheaper, the government earn too much out of it which is why I think drivers are trying to keep to their local circuits.
Entry fees are getting higher but as has been said the organising clubs have to try and cover their costs. The only way to try and keep these low is if all of the races on the day have full grids, This is down to the drivers to enter and on time. I think that to help this situation clubs should put their differences aside and try to align their regs and have invitation classes or handicaps (put a car up a class) for cars that might not conform to a certain class. This would allow drivers to save on travelling costs and race at their local tracks in various visiting races. I also think that their are too many championships it seems that I always read about new championships starting up the msa should stop this unless it can be prooven that there is a gap in the market. |
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