Ferrari P1 Rumours

[jimclark]

'Sorry...been outa the loop. What is the evidence of even a thought of a Ferrari return???

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by jimclark

'Sorry...been outa the loop. What is the evidence of even a thought of a Ferrari return???

There is none other than a baseless rumor.

[TF110]

Everything starts as A RUMOR until it becomes reality or not.

[Maelochs]

Right ... sort of. Some rumoprs are in fact people talking about things they have heard that are actually in planning, while some are started by people grasping at straws or merely trying to write entertaining articles for a quick buck.

The kernel of this rumor was someone saying, "Well, no one from Ferrari ever expressly stated that they wouldn't enter P1."

Nor did they say they wouldn't enter the Kentucky Derby, NASCAR the Iditarod, air racing, or Nathan's hot-dog eating contest, so I guess those are all valid rumors?

Or maybe, we hear rumors of stuff happening and also rumors that are wholly fictional, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend a whole lot of time on the wholly fictional?

So, some people are trying to determine if this one is wholly fictional.

So, regardless of whether everything starts as a rumor ... as you say, lots of rumors are not reality. No problem pointing out that this rumor isn['t supported by a single iota of evidence.

And really, even if Ferrari started a P1 program ... this current rumor wouldn't be a rumor of that. if Ferrari started a P1 program, and someone noticed the beginning stages, or learned that Ferrari had called Dallara and then deduced that they might be considering P1 ... but this is just some empty nothings based on the fact that some guy somewhere really wants it to happen. Even if it happened, this rumor would be unreality, because ti si not based on anything but imagination.

We'd all love to see it, but deluding ourselves doesn't help anything.

As for diesel/petrol balance ... I'd bet FIA jumps pretty quick for Toyota and Porsche, just as they have been giving Toyota increasing advantages since they started. FIA knows it need more than just Audi on board. Why someone thing FIA would suddenly bend over backward for Ferrari ... remember, we have new management there. Care to tell me what (ex-Ferrari manager) Jean Todt has done for Ferrari since he took over?

[TF110]

They are already in the WEC in GTE so its not like their not involved. All those GT3s they sell plus the fact theyll develop the 458 GT on their own points to more sportscar involvement. The rumors aren't out of the ordinary, plus they persist when a simple denial could put an end to it. I think its something on their minds and only time will tell us if they have plans for lmp1.

[Beryl]

If Ferrari is looking for a new 2nd driver to support Alonso (like Kimi), then they could be making plans to move Felipe Massa to the LMP1 project to help test in 2014.

Ferrari would probably use Felipe Massa, Marc Gené (2009 LM winner), Giancarlo Fisichella and someone else for the full-season effort in 2015.

Is Gene still a Ferrari man or has he been fully cut loose and/or absorbed into the Audi family?

If this program is indeed real (which I don't believe), then Kobayashi, Fisi and Rigon would probably become part of the project, and Massa if he leaves F1. Luca Filippi said something not too long ago about working with Ferrari on something, so maybe him too.

But even though Ferrari have a horde of quality drivers in house, there's not really many with LMP1, or even LMP2, experience amongst them. Pierre Kaffer and Nic Minassian (is he now a Ferrari driver?)? I would imagine that Ferrari would need to find some proper LMP1-experienced drivers that are available (Chandhok for example or Heidfeld if Porsche don't snap him up) or poach from Audi/Toyota.

[Gingers4Justice]

I'm very suspicious of this rumour. It only takes a few excitable journalists who would love to report on a Ferrari LMP1 and put a few words in the mouths of officials at Maranello.

That said, there is an increasing amount of smoke coming from this rumour, if not a flame.

[Starfish Primer]

F1 is on holidays, silly news are back. Typical news are Ferrari to build a LMP1, Audi/VW to move to F1 and rumours of GPs everywhere (Thailand, Argentina, Jan Mayen Island...) . I won't pay to much attention to this.

Gene is a Ferrari driver and drives on shows like Goodwood, I don't know what is his role in the team but definitely is more linked Ferrari than Audi.

[gaaaazFR]

When you see the involvement of manufacturers to build a "decent" LMP1 program (Porsche took more than 2 years of preparation), I really doubt Ferrari would be able to decide a LeMans program just with 18 month of anticipation.

Running a GTE program depends of the Competicion Clienti department, an LMP1 wouldn't... It would require a proper design team and a lot of wind tunnel work...

When you think that in the same time, Ferrari HAS TO build a winning car for F1 in 2014 and if you remember that they still have troubles with their wind tunnel (they use Toyota's one since one year). It really seems difficult they put together an LMP1 program in the same time.

[Maelochs]

There is an increasing amount of smoke coming From Us on this rumor. I wonder what it is we are smoking.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by gaaaazFR

When you see the involvement of manufacturers to build a "decent" LMP1 program (Porsche took more than 2 years of preparation), I really doubt Ferrari would be able to decide a LeMans program just with 18 month of anticipation.

Running a GTE program depends of the Competicion Clienti department, an LMP1 wouldn't... It would require a proper design team and a lot of wind tunnel work...

When you think that in the same time, Ferrari HAS TO build a winning car for F1 in 2014 and if you remember that they still have troubles with their wind tunnel (they use Toyota's one since one year). It really seems difficult they put together an LMP1 program in the same time.

I dont see it happening .... but why would it be so difficult?

They are already designing a P1 legal engine, they have plenty of young designers who they could let loose on a design and they could sun the chassis build out to Dallara or someone similar and they could get plenty of funding from sponsors.

The reason the ACO would jump through hoops to get a works Ferrari into WEC and Le Mans is that it would do more to put the show on the global media map than anything else - simple business sense imo.

This is all conjecture of course, but it is nice to talk about it. More than likely this is more posturing over F1 rules as it usually is.

[Maelochs]

They aren't really designing a P1 engine, despite the fact that the displacement conforms to P1 rules.

An engine designed to go flat-out for max two hours is a lot different than an engine designed to use a specified amount of fuel to go a specified distance for six, twelve, or 24 hours.

Right now F1 motors make what, 750 hp but only about 300 lbs-ft torque? if the new motor is anthing like the old, the car will be bog-slow off of corners. Also, how different are the KERS systems (which affect every part of engine and much chassis design)?

Would modifying the engine be cheaper than building two unrelated engines? Certainly (ref. Dr. Baretzky.) But it's far from just unbolting the motor form one chassis and bolting it into another.

[ss_collins]

An engine designed to go flat-out for max two hours is a lot different than an engine designed to use a specified amount of fuel to go a specified distance for six, twelve, or 24 hours.

Right now F1 motors make what, 750 hp but only about 300 lbs-ft torque? if the new motor is anthing like the old, the car will be bog-slow off of corners. Also, how different are the KERS systems (which affect every part of engine and much chassis design)?

Would modifying the engine be cheaper than building two unrelated engines? Certainly (ref. Dr. Baretzky.) But it's far from just unbolting the motor form one chassis and bolting it into another.

The 2014 F1 engines pretty much do have to run for 24 hours, as they cannot be changed - the teams in 2015 will only have 4 per season if memory serves, thats more that 24 hours per engine.

The new hybrid system is very potent indeed, the LMP1 regulations were specifically written to allow direct installation of an F1 power unit into an LMP. So yes its as simple as installing it. However I don't think an F1 engine will have enough power - we hear that the 2014 Toyota could have in excess of 1100bhp on full noise and huge torque (sounds daft but its true!)

[Maelochs]

New F1 engines must run 24 hours total, not 24 hours in a row.

Better than starting form scratch, but i still don't think one would bolt right into the other chassis.

[gustavobamba]

Well nice draw

http://lemansprototypes.over-blog.it

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

... we hear that the 2014 Toyota could have in excess of 1100bhp on full noise and huge torque (sounds daft but its true!)

I'm sorry. Am I missing something here? What'll it race with.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

New F1 engines must run 24 hours total, not 24 hours in a row.

I'm not sure which is worse for an engine. Constant running leaves it in more of a steady state. Pits turn it off, but it is more extreme to have it complete cool down.

???

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I'm sorry. Am I missing something here? What'll it race with.

It's probably 1100bhp with the IC engine at full power and the energy recovery systems in full discharge mode, 8 megajoules is a large amount of energy and discharging it in a short amount of time gives a lot of power. The TS030's hybrid system only boosts for about 2-3 seconds, but it produces about 300bhp for those 2-3 seconds, so that's 800-900 bhp already under full power from all systems,

[Adam43]

I wondered if ss meant with energy recover too - full noise.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by TF110

Everything starts as A RUMOR until it becomes reality or not.

Oh. really???

'News to me.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by jimclark

Oh. really???

'News to me.

I'm not getting your reply. Sorry.

As for the 1100hp, they put out 300hp with the 500kj and the 7 braking zones. If you do the math, thats 3.5 MJ per lap. Doubling that is 7MJ. So it would be 600+hp in the same scenario as now if Toyota released the energy the same way. If its 8MJ per lap, that would equal about 685hp compared to the 300hp boost they have now!

[Asa]

I think FIAT will not enter the team as Ferrari, but as Maserati. They have said before that Maserati's market competitor is Porsche.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by TF110

I'm not getting your reply. Sorry.

No problem. 'Sorry about your not being able to comprehend.

First; I suggest you check the dictionary in regard to the definition of "rumour".

Many things start out as rumours and are just that. Many other things are not rumours and actually begin as facts, then are leaked out as "rumours"....

Got it?

[Mal]

Originally Posted by jimclark

No problem. 'Sorry about your not being able to comprehend.

First; I suggest you check the dictionary in regard to the definition of "rumour".

Many things start out as rumours and are just that. Many other things are not rumours and actually begin as facts, then are leaked out as "rumours"....

Got it?

No need to be so condescending.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by jimclark

No problem. 'Sorry about your not being able to comprehend.

First; I suggest you check the dictionary in regard to the definition of "rumour".

Many things start out as rumours and are just that. Many other things are not rumours and actually begin as facts, then are leaked out as "rumours"....

Got it?

Really?

[Maelochs]

Other things are never rumors at all, they are just facts.

Anyway ... Ferrari P1 is an Unfounded rumor, a rumor based on other rumors and imagination and hopes and wishes, without a scintilla of hard evidence


... but we all hope Ferrari builds a P1 anyway. Can we at least agree on that?