|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
26 Oct 2016, 17:47 (Ref:3683121) | #11351 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 27
|
Quote:
Audi's always been a class act team, and professional through and through, but it doesn't change the fact that they really needed more level competition to truly be regarded as legendary. And regardless of the team, I don't like to see anyone leave on a losing note. In the end, it does make more sense for Porsche to remain (between the two of them), as they're 'fresher' on the scene. |
||
|
26 Oct 2016, 17:48 (Ref:3683122) | #11352 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,096
|
Quote:
Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
26 Oct 2016, 17:54 (Ref:3683129) | #11353 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 27
|
Quote:
The comparison to Audi is similar: they remained (and mostly won) in the LM/ALMS/WEC for a long time, but based on their level of competition most years (again, not their fault!), I can't call them legendary. Like Wlad Klitschko in HW boxing: he won for many years, which was good, but when he fought top level comp, his record is not so impressive (and he more or less went out on a losing note to a not so skilled boxer in Tyson Fury). But Audi's story is hopefully not over in racing yet... |
||
|
26 Oct 2016, 18:01 (Ref:3683133) | #11354 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,054
|
Any chance of Joest running an Audi or two at Le Mans next year on a privateer basis?
In all likelihood no, but we can hope! |
||
|
26 Oct 2016, 18:03 (Ref:3683135) | #11355 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,734
|
It's not good news. Unfortunately, I think having one of the big and long term manufacturers leaving the WEC, will diminish the series.
|
||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
26 Oct 2016, 18:05 (Ref:3683138) | #11356 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,208
|
Quote:
I'll miss them a lot, let's see if someone fills that gap and all the personnel ( staff and contractors ) find a job soon. |
|||
|
26 Oct 2016, 18:25 (Ref:3683140) | #11357 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 15,559
|
I'm a Toyota fan first, but I appreciate Audi's efforts and their competition. I didn't like diesel, didn't like they had f1-level budgets, but this is sad news. The only positive thing to this imo is it's one less team Toyota has to worry about beating to get a win at Le Mans. But that's not what I prefer and no doubt it's not what they prefer. But at least they're continuing on against the best in Porsche.
Two car battles have been great before in ilmc and the first two years of the wec. I don't see the demise of lmp1 or the wec at all. I feel the opposite. The big spender has now left. Better for the others to join now while the fruit is ripe for the picking. So long Audi. Have fun in Formula E. But you're definitely not going to have the same following as the wec. |
|
|
26 Oct 2016, 18:25 (Ref:3683141) | #11358 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,470
|
Quote:
This decision has been known for some time. It wasn't made last week. |
|||
__________________
“We’re trying to close the doors without embarrassing ourselves, the France family and embarrassing (the) Grand American Series,” he said in the deposition. “There is no money. There is no purse. There’s nothing.” |
26 Oct 2016, 18:25 (Ref:3683142) | #11359 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 363
|
"Audi denied a report in Germany's Handelsblatt newspaper that savings from pulling out of Le Mans and the World Endurance Championship (WEC) would amount to an annual 300 million euros ($328 million). A source at Audi said the move would save Audi nearly 100 million euros per year"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-au...-idUSKCN12Q16P |
|
|
26 Oct 2016, 18:41 (Ref:3683143) | #11360 | ||||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,488
|
Quote:
Quote:
While I also I wouldn't call Audi "legendary" based solely on their efforts, the same argument could be made for Porsche seeing as a few of their victories came up against little/no external competition ... if you don't mind the off-topic question, would you also not regard Porsche as legendary for the same reason, or does the greater number of victories (or anything else) swing it for you? Last edited by J Jay; 26 Oct 2016 at 18:55. |
||||
__________________
BoP is democracy for racing. |
26 Oct 2016, 18:45 (Ref:3683144) | #11361 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 363
|
Quote:
That must have been a pretty cool experience with the karting runs. Audi had a strong run and supported the sport. You can't hold their withdrawal against them. I agree it makes more sense for Porsche to stay, but that also has to do with the regulations. It has been widely discussed, and it makes no sense for VW Group to have two brands wit the same concept racing in the WEC. Both the regulations and the consequence of dieselgate favor the concept used by Porsche. Competition has also been discussed a lot. Audi came to LM when the field was very competitive, and they managed a podium. The next few years they won comfortably, but again, you can't hold their commitment against them, if their competition was not as committed as them, and also for BMW, Toyota and Mercedes abandoning LM after 1999. I would say starting with 2007 there were some amazing battles and competition was strong. You can see in the regulations and recent race results that it makes no sense to use a diesel in LMP1-H (past 2013). Why should Audi stick around and mess with some crazy aero in order to keep losing races in the pits and on strategy, because of the EoT, and that after VAG's ambition to move away from diesel? This is absolutely the right decision, except I think it should have happened after 2017. I don't understand the bitterness. If you think Audi is so unimportant and over-hyped, then you should be happy. You could also say Peugeot left on a losing note, but for me that's not what comes to mind when I hear Peugeot and LM together. I think of the amazing battles and interesting races. |
||
|
26 Oct 2016, 18:49 (Ref:3683148) | #11362 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 363
|
Quote:
Or maybe in a sense the biggest patron has left. Still unclear about the budget. It is claimed Audi will save EUR 100 million, whatever that means (from switching from WEC to FE, I guess) |
||
|
26 Oct 2016, 19:01 (Ref:3683151) | #11363 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,137
|
As for the drivers, Endurance-Info put up some thoughts about the drivers:
* Duval and di Grassi -> Formula E (as before) * Lotterer -> Super Formula (as before) + Super GT (?) * Tréluyer -> ditto (only the Super GT part I think) * Fässler and Rockenfeller -> GT (since they did a few races for Corvette this year) * Rast -> DTM (replacing Timo Scheider) * L. Vanthoor -> Porsche GTE * no mention abut Jarvis I'm a bit surprised Rockenfeller and Vanthoor are mentioned, since their programmes are not affected? |
||
|
26 Oct 2016, 19:05 (Ref:3683152) | #11364 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 363
|
Quote:
Again, Rubens is not in the Hall of Fame, but Audi is! So it's odd that you compare Audi to someone who won a handful of races. It's kinda odd comparing a team and its legacy to that of a driver and their legacy (or to a boxer). Do you think the Mazda 787B is legendary? Why should it not be? Maybe Mazda is not legendary, but the 787B is? What about Michael Schumacher? Why can't I claim he wasn't legendary, since he didn't face enough competition (and lost when he did)? I wouldn't claim Schumacher is the best driver ever, but I will never deny that he is a legend (I'm personally not a very big fan, though I wish him a full recovery). The same way, no one is claiming Audi were the greatest of all time. But they clearly are one of the greatest LM legends because of what they did at LM, not just because of hanging around. And they have enough prototypes that are legendary - R8, R10, maybe not so much the R15, but definitely the pre-2016 R18. |
||
|
26 Oct 2016, 19:08 (Ref:3683153) | #11365 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,488
|
Quote:
Rockenfeller is a bit of a surprise seeing as he's still a front-line DTM driver, but it's no secret that Vanthoor was going to be the next big thing for Audi's LMP1 driver lineup and Audi were keen for him to not go the same way as Tincknell. GT3 (+ WRT LMP2?) might be enough to keep him satisfied, but if he wants to drive in LMP1 in the near future he will need to switch. What better way for Porsche to relaunch their GTE efforts than to take arguably Audi's best GT driver? |
|||
__________________
BoP is democracy for racing. |
26 Oct 2016, 19:15 (Ref:3683155) | #11366 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,137
|
Quote:
If Jarvis - as one of the affected drivers - didn't know and doesn't have a plan B at this moment, then why would Vanthoor? Unless he knew Audi LMP wasn't going to happen for him anyway? Only 2 cars at Le Mans, no definite programme post 2017, Rast in the picking order before him? But of course, these are just the thoughts of the writer of that article... ... Of course, good for Porsche if they can take him. They may have a seat to fill if Bamber or Tandy gets promoted, although I would have thought they have more than enough drivers already. Then again, an opportunity to sign Vanthoor may be too good to miss. We'll see. |
|||
|
26 Oct 2016, 19:18 (Ref:3683157) | #11367 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 363
|
||
|
26 Oct 2016, 19:20 (Ref:3683158) | #11368 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,308
|
Quote:
WEC becomes iffy because of the logistics and expense of airlifting batteries all over the place though. Where is this coming from? Both Manthey and CORE's contracts were renewed during Le Mans weekend. |
||
|
26 Oct 2016, 19:21 (Ref:3683159) | #11369 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,137
|
Quote:
All manufacturer's have claimed the cars are far too complicated and far too expensive to be run by a privateer. I doubt they would change their mind now. If it doesn't make sense, Joest won't do it. (And I'm sure, he is one of the few who knows if it is feasible for a privateer or not) |
|||
|
26 Oct 2016, 19:26 (Ref:3683160) | #11370 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,488
|
As you say, Vanthoor was always second to Rast (which IIRC caused a bit of friction between them), so if Rene wasn't close to an LMP1 drive then Laurens would only be further away. He would have been keeping an eye elsewhere anyway, whereas the full-season drivers were safe in their seats for the time being.
Also, I think Vanthoor is one of the 3 drivers that would be "too good to pass up," alongside Rast (who is spoken for) and Lotterer. Edit - The privateer R18 is a non-starter; for starters, think of the resources needed just to redesign the brakes to take the increased loads and the knock-on effect on the aerodynamics. |
||
__________________
BoP is democracy for racing. |
26 Oct 2016, 19:29 (Ref:3683161) | #11371 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 27
|
Quote:
I didn't want to talk about Schumi, but I apply the same standards to him (also wish him well in his recovery). With a great car/team, he was always going to win as much as he did. Pound for pound, I don't know that I can call him a legend (my evaluation). But did he do impressive things for the team and fans? Certainly. |
||
|
26 Oct 2016, 19:52 (Ref:3683164) | #11372 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 230
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
26 Oct 2016, 19:54 (Ref:3683166) | #11373 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,575
|
Such a shame to hear they are pulling out, I think the emissions scandal has hurt them badly, compounded with Porsche beating them. I'll be sorry to hear them go and can only hope another manufacturer will fill the void!
|
||
__________________
#teamyorkshire |
26 Oct 2016, 20:05 (Ref:3683168) | #11374 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 15,559
|
Quote:
Note that the news pieces say Audi will save around $300million a year, but they say closer to $100million. Well, they're keeping everyone onboard and not completely shutting down. Plus they're going to expand their F-E project. So it seems like they did have quite the expense if you can do all that and still save $100million! Yes, I think Peugeot, BMW, Honda etc. are more likely now. They're bargaining chips are going to be bigger because the ACO are in a predicament having lost Audi, that they want to appease these guys to join. |
||
|
26 Oct 2016, 20:14 (Ref:3683169) | #11375 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,575
|
I'm surprised BMW hasn't joined yet, I've heard Peugeot making noises, are they still just toying with the idea?
|
||
__________________
#teamyorkshire |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion | Simmi | North American Racing | 9284 | 18 Sep 2024 14:24 |
[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion | Gingers4Justice | ACO Regulated Series | 6771 | 18 Aug 2020 09:37 |
Nissan LMP1 Discussion | Gingers4Justice | Sportscar & GT Racing | 5568 | 17 Feb 2016 23:22 |
How about a LMP1 Pro & LMP1 Privateer class | Holt | Sportscar & GT Racing | 35 | 6 Jun 2012 13:44 |
[LM24 Race] Audi LMP1 Poster all art deco'd. | blackohio | ACO Regulated Series | 2 | 27 Oct 2011 06:30 |