IMSA: USCR 2018

[Matt]

PR1 would go to a Nissan at this stage, as they run a Ligier chassis. No Oreca DPi yet.

As stated with SoD, it would be stupid for them to waste the money on a chassis then change to a different one the following year instead of just doing the upgrade.

If they both had gotten standard Dallara's it would be different.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Matt

PR1 would go to a Nissan at this stage, as they run a Ligier chassis. No Oreca DPi yet.

As stated with SoD, it would be stupid for them to waste the money on a chassis then change to a different one the following year instead of just doing the upgrade.

If they both had gotten standard Dallara's it would be different.

If memory helps, ESM has a 2 years exclusive deal for the nissan package.
Anyway, I'm not cynical, just realistic as explained by someone else, current wec lmp2 vs. cadillacs is not so much different from 2014-2015 lmp2 vs. dp era. Now, not only wec lmp2 lack of torque, but aren't even lighter than dpi.

Pole positions don't show the real values in field... last year mazdas marked some poles too, and we know how it ended

[Matt]

Originally Posted by canaglia

If memory helps, ESM has a 2 years exclusive deal for the nissan package.
Anyway, I'm not cynical, just realistic as explained by someone else, current wec lmp2 vs. cadillacs is not so much different from 2014-2015 lmp2 vs. dp era. Now, not only wec lmp2 lack of torque, but aren't even lighter than dpi.

Pole positions don't show the real values in field... last year mazdas marked some poles too, and we know how it ended

Rebellion and to a small extant JDC/Miller at Sebring proved this to be untrue. It's not the cars, it's the quality of the teams running them.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Matt

Rebellion and to a small extant JDC/Miller at Sebring proved this to be untrue. It's not the cars, it's the quality of the teams running them.

Which is how this most parallels DP vs P2.

The best teams have the best cars, it is generally how this whole motor racing thing works.

Chris

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

The best teams have the best cars, it is generally how this whole motor racing thing works.

'Matter of fact, how just about any venture works...as it should be.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Which is how this most parallels DP vs P2.

The best teams have the best cars, it is generally how this whole motor racing thing works.

Chris

Exactly.

I hate how people in this thread are saying it's purely a car thing that can't be overcome by a good team. Throw WTR into a standard Dallara and they'd produce the same results.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by Matt

I hate how people in this thread are saying it's purely a car thing that can't be overcome by a good team. Throw WTR into a standard Dallara and they'd produce the same results.

Well ... they didn't win any USCC titles when they had the DPs.

Yes, they are a decent team, and the driving quality seems to have improved over the past few years. But here they are benefiting from the year or more extra testing the Cadillac got ... and the time they spent testing the Cadillac.

Rebellion is no slouch of a team but they have a lot fewer miles on their DP, so they haven't fixed all the little issues.

I don't think it is All car by any means ... but please, keep a straight face and tell me the Mazda and the Oreca 07 are the equal of the Cadillac DPi V.R right now.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Well ... they didn't win any USCC titles when they had the DPs.

Yes, they are a decent team, and the driving quality seems to have improved over the past few years. But here they are benefiting from the year or more extra testing the Cadillac got ... and the time they spent testing the Cadillac.

Rebellion is no slouch of a team but they have a lot fewer miles on their DP, so they haven't fixed all the little issues.

I don't think it is All car by any means ... but please, keep a straight face and tell me the Mazda and the Oreca 07 are the equal of the Cadillac DPi V.R right now.

Considering Rebellion ran down and passed the Cadillac under racing conditions and was pulling away before it broke at Sebring...yes. Same with the JDC Banana Boat.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Well ... they didn't win any USCC titles when they had the DPs.

Yes, they are a decent team, and the driving quality seems to have improved over the past few years. But here they are benefiting from the year or more extra testing the Cadillac got ... and the time they spent testing the Cadillac.

Rebellion is no slouch of a team but they have a lot fewer miles on their DP, so they haven't fixed all the little issues.

I don't think it is All car by any means ... but please, keep a straight face and tell me the Mazda and the Oreca 07 are the equal of the Cadillac DPi V.R right now.

I think the performance is close. However, the Caddy's have better teams, drivers, and reliability.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

I think the performance is close. However, the Caddy's have better teams, drivers, and reliability.

And torque.

Are the cars equal? No. But the Cadillac has been pegged back countless times to match up with the global spec cars. So in general, as this is a BoP formula, the cars are as close as non-spec cars can be. And I mean spec in the sense of Porsche Carrera Cup.

That Oreca has scary potential. As soon as the reliability issues are sorted, that car will be missile fast. And the ESM Nissan looks like a scary proposition after Long Beach.

The three Caddy teams are the three best funded, and most consistently high performing teams in the series. I expected an AXR internecine battle to be the story up front. But Maelochs is right, the Taylor boys have jumped up massively, they have truly hit their strides.

Maelochs also brings up a great point in saying the extra mileage in testing is an advantage too. WTR knows their car better than anyone, and the teething issues the other cars are having were worked through by Cadillac in November.

Chris

[Maelochs]

Let me be clear here, please, that I am Not complaining about BoP. I think the series got it right for the first three races.

As Mr. Jonerz points out the Oreca and the Nissan should be dangerous competitors once they are sorted out.

Judging by the performance shown at Sebring, in particular, I’d suggest anything not based on a Riley would be a good investment. And even then, no one knows what a really good team and a really good test program might get out of a Riley.

So far though ... the Caddy has everything—more power, more torque, more reliability, more testing.

IMSA might offer some really good racing for the rest of the season ... and I would suggest they have put on two-and-a-half really good races so far.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Let me be clear here, please, that I am Not complaining about BoP. I think the series got it right for the first three races.

As Mr. Jonerz points out the Oreca and the Nissan should be dangerous competitors once they are sorted out.

Judging by the performance shown at Sebring, in particular, I’d suggest anything not based on a Riley would be a good investment. And even then, no one knows what a really good team and a really good test program might get out of a Riley.

So far though ... the Caddy has everything—more power, more torque, more reliability, more testing.

IMSA might offer some really good racing for the rest of the season ... and I would suggest they have put on two-and-a-half really good races so far.

While the Daytona BoP was off, I think DPi has a ton of potential. It is not P1, but it is not meant to be. The biggest thing is giving the privateers access to competitive cars at reasonable prices and mixing that with some factory support. It is setup in a way where if a manufacturer wants to bring an alternative technology (hydrogen, electric, etc.) to the table (like the Deltawing in P though this is a stretch) the series can performance balance it in with a more open rule book. I would like to see Michelin back in the top class long term, but do understand the economics that the series has to work with. Long term the series has proven they can get GTLM & GTD right with cars that are a lot more diverse and has to get it right in P if the class is going to attract new teams, sponsors, and manufacturers long term. I still think there would be a lot of benefit going to a P1 (DPi/P2, open tires, all-pro) and P2 (DPi/P2, spec tires, Pro/Am). However, they will figure it out in time.

[carbsmith]

If you actually watched the Nissan at Long Beach that car was horrid. Dalziel wasn't locking wheels constantly because it drove well.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

If you actually watched the Nissan at Long Beach that car was horrid. Dalziel wasn't locking wheels constantly because it drove well.

I think the tires went out on the car. They didn't change them at their second stop which allowed them to take the lead iirc.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Rcz

I want to see more races in the future.

Add Mid-Ohio, Barber and Portland!

To prevent budgets from escalating, I'd split Petit Le Mans into a 5-hour GT race and a 5-hour Prototype race. I would invite European LMP2 and GTLM entries to complete the fields.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

To prevent budgets from escalating, I'd split Petit Le Mans into a 5-hour GT race and a 5-hour Prototype race. I would invite European LMP2 and GTLM entries to complete the fields.

Your posts contain the most ludicrous ideas.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Matt

Your posts contain the most ludicrous ideas.

Good thing Europe doesn't have GTLM otherwise this would have gone from ludicrous to downright silly.

[chernaudi]

Europe does, it's called GTE Pro in the WEC, with an Am variant in WEC and LMS.

Only difference is name and the ACO and IMSA go their own way with series unique BOP.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Europe does, it's called GTE Pro in the WEC, with an Am variant in WEC and LMS.

Only difference is name and the ACO and IMSA go their own way with series unique BOP.

Ummmmm I think most of us know this.

I think the guy was making a point.

And I have to agree ... splitting the last race of the season in half to "save money"? Running two small fields in two separate races? P=O=ing the fans for What reason?

If the series wants to make it cheaper on competitors, run fewer races through the season. Hacking up one of the iconic races is dumb, and how much would it save? The teams would still need to do a complete tear-down---and they would even if were a 100-minute race because---it is the last race of the season.

Teams are going to be stripping the car to bare chassis, seeing what if anything can be reused, what needs to be replaced with next year's parts ...

The only thing that a half-race would save would be a few sets of tires and a little fuel, and the fuel costs and lodging for the crew far outweighs fuel and tires for the car anyway.

Worst thing is, P-O the fans and ticket sales drop and revenue falls and teams get charged higher entry fees to make up the difference.

Hmmmm ....

I cannot say I know for sure why Sebring attendance was down this year--or if it really was (it sure seemed to be.) I think it might be because fans weren't too excited about seeing another Cadillac romp, and every indication was that that would be on the menu.

And it was.

IMSA has a good series in its hands ... and could drop it and break it irreparably pretty easily. I am sort of thinking messing with some of the most iconic and best-attended races is not the idea they are looking for.

[jimclark]

I say, move the start to Saturday and make it a 24 hourer. One to open the season and one to close it...
'Might make the drive worthwhile and I could return to RA after 40 years of absence.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by jimclark

I say, move the start to Saturday and make it a 24 hourer. One to open the season and one to close it...
'Might make the drive worthwhile and I could return to RA after 40 years of absence.

And start at 7 am Sat?? All race engines have to be done at 9 or 10 I believe for the noise ordinance, there was a 24 hour race earlier in the year with a 3 hour break for quiet time.

[jimclark]

Pardon my ignorance of Braselton's noise ordinances. That would present a problem. 'Last I was there (late '70s) they ran in the morning but I don't remember what time they fired up. What time can engines be started in the morning and is it so every day of the week....Sunday different by chance? Is that why the Petit is run on Saturday? (Or is it convenience for spectators to return home. I had to do the 700 mile, give or take a couple, drive home for work Monday morning a few times after Sunday's events. Not a real pleasant thang...)

[broadrun96]

It's just Sunday, and they actually run Sunday morning. Historics 'enduro' 90 min race I think runs before quiet time. It's a church thing and think it's been around as long as the track or close to it.

[MaskedRacer]

2018 Imsa is the thread folks. The first page of posts has some good content to reply to!

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Matt

Your posts contain the most ludicrous ideas.

And I'm damn proud of it.

Panoz also had some crazy ideas. I just need a long term loan... :P