Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 1 Apr 2018, 12:30 (Ref:3812285)   #1
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,215
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Mercedes After 2021

I find it fairy humorous when I constantly read of people saying that we need the new regs in 2021 to stop MB's dominance of the sport. I want to know what they are smoking because there is no guarantee that MB will not build a motor that is less dominant than what they have now and I think it is fairly likely to tell the truth that their next one will be at the top of the pile as well. Their history in motor sport has been to rise to the top in just about every class or formula they have raced in and I can't see that changing.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 00:14 (Ref:3812391)   #2
ASCII Man
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,979
ASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Jeez, you just had to make it even more depressing, huh?
ASCII Man is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 01:04 (Ref:3812398)   #3
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,215
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASCII Man View Post
Jeez, you just had to make it even more depressing, huh?
It's not a good thought but I can't see anything else happening. Race teams tend to be like this, once they get on top they stay there. The Germans are so good at this stuff, MB, Audi and Porsche have more successes than failures as a rule. It was a German driver who lifted Ferrari which may be coincidental but I don't think so. Seriously every time someone says we need the new regs to stop MB I laugh 'cause it is not going to be that easy to stop them.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 05:17 (Ref:3812409)   #4
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 6,520
E.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
I It was a German driver who lifted Ferrari which may be coincidental but I don't think so. Seriously every time someone says we need the new regs to stop MB I laugh 'cause it is not going to be that easy to stop them.
It was a lot more than a German driver that put Ferrari back on the map.... the driver was just the person who used his talents to maximise the car created by the greatest engineering talents assembled and co-ordinated by Jean Todt and Ferraris open cheque book approach at the time. Without the car the German driver would have been far less successful.
E.B is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 05:37 (Ref:3812410)   #5
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,215
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.B View Post
It was a lot more than a German driver that put Ferrari back on the map.... the driver was just the person who used his talents to maximise the car created by the greatest engineering talents assembled and co-ordinated by Jean Todt and Ferraris open cheque book approach at the time. Without the car the German driver would have been far less successful.
No doubt you are right but MS did a huge amount of work, way more than F1 drivers normally did and it showed. But this isn't about Ferrari it is about MB and why people expect them to begin losing after 2021. I see it everywhere, we need 2021 to sort out MB's dominance.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 05:48 (Ref:3812412)   #6
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 6,520
E.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
. we need 2021 to sort out MB's dominance.
Agreed. The question is how?
E.B is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 06:09 (Ref:3812415)   #7
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,215
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.B View Post
Agreed. The question is how?
Either another manufacturer steps up to the plate and does an equally good job on both the car and the engine and also the team structure, the last being very important or MB will continue to roll forward as it has been doing. They show no signs of leaving and I think it would be nearly impossible to regulate equivalency so I guess we had better get used to it. It just strikes me as strange the way that everyone expects 2021 to result in MB losing the engine battle when it is obvious that the chance of that happening are fairly remote to say the least. More worrying is that there has been no discussion & recognition that MB will continue to dominate. Ignore it and it might go away??

It could be prevented by not allowing any team racing to be a motor manufacturer but MB, Ferrari, Reno & Honda would walk away. That would be the only way to prevent MB continuing to dominate. I am still wondering why F1 need a bespoke motor but that is a discussion for another thread.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 07:43 (Ref:3812426)   #8
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post

It could be prevented by not allowing any team racing to be a motor manufacturer but MB, Ferrari, Reno & Honda would walk away. That would be the only way to prevent MB continuing to dominate. I am still wondering why F1 need a bespoke motor but that is a discussion for another thread.
The way to bring the whole field into a sensible zone where everybody can compete would be to go back to a normally aspirated V8.
Then give them spec single plane single profile front and rear wings of much reduced size.

You would then have a racing class where it would be very difficult to dominate.

Mercedes' strength lies in the hybrid power unit that has no practical road relevance whatsoever, and a massive sunk cost of investment that nobody else will or rather can afford to invest just to be competitive in F1.

Until hybrid PU's are ditched nobody will be properly competitive, as nobody can afford to go down the blind alley!
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 08:02 (Ref:3812431)   #9
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,215
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
The way to bring the whole field into a sensible zone where everybody can compete would be to go back to a normally aspirated V8.
Then give them spec single plane single profile front and rear wings of much reduced size.

You would then have a racing class where it would be very difficult to dominate.

Mercedes' strength lies in the hybrid power unit that has no practical road relevance whatsoever, and a massive sunk cost of investment that nobody else will or rather can afford to invest just to be competitive in F1.

Until hybrid PU's are ditched nobody will be properly competitive, as nobody can afford to go down the blind alley!
You and I both know that NA is off the table and won't even be considered or discussed.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 08:24 (Ref:3812433)   #10
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
You and I both know that NA is off the table and won't even be considered or discussed.
It is, and until it isn't we probably won't have any racing or equality.

There is endless discussion of less cost and yet they just make the obligatory equipment more and more expensive.

Perhaps we could just have V6 turbos without any of the eye wateringly expensive sham attached.

P.S. What happened to the open scrutineering proposal?
Anybody?
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 08:35 (Ref:3812435)   #11
Taxi645
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Netherlands
Posts: 995
Taxi645 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTaxi645 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
By 2021 even hybrids will loose road relevance quickly (street cars going all ellectric fairly quickly). Possibly a while after, atmosperic high revving engines might be seen as a good option again if you want too provide excitement and all electric is no option.
Taxi645 is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 12:29 (Ref:3812472)   #12
ASCII Man
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,979
ASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
It's easy to solve if F1 has the balls for it, which they don't.

Make the engine rules simpler and cost effective so it becomes more attractive for new engine builders, like Cosworth, Judd, and the likes, to enter the sport.
And if manufacturers like Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, etc. start complaining and threatening to leave, kick them out of the sport.

Simples, if F1 was actually led by men with testicles.
ASCII Man is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 12:33 (Ref:3812474)   #13
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 9,988
chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Surley the Mercedes-AMG Project One supercar program proves the road relevance of their F1 engine program no?

Super expensive sure but it's proof that the tech can be monetized outside of F1.

That said, they are letting Ferrari do the quitting talk for them...probably just posturing and they will end up getting what they want but as of now I don't think it's a 100% certainty that either team stays for post 2021.

More so for Merc given their potential FE program. They have hedged their bets imo.
chillibowl is online now  
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there
I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 14:26 (Ref:3812491)   #14
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,215
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASCII Man View Post
It's easy to solve if F1 has the balls for it, which they don't.

Make the engine rules simpler and cost effective so it becomes more attractive for new engine builders, like Cosworth, Judd, and the likes, to enter the sport.
And if manufacturers like Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, etc. start complaining and threatening to leave, kick them out of the sport.

Simples, if F1 was actually led by men with testicles.
It is easier than that, restrict the resources at the track to manage the car and ban back to base telemetry. If they can't manage it they can't use it, simples. Ban the use of all those big fancy screens, no live telemetry off the car and a shed load of money just got saved in direct overheads.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Apr 2018, 15:33 (Ref:3812499)   #15
loon
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 270
loon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridloon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
and ban radio and pitstops, just strap the driver in and let him drive , no need then for millions of race simulations and engineers in concrete bunkers calling strategy
loon is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Apr 2018, 21:28 (Ref:3813770)   #16
Mekola
Veteran
 
Mekola's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Kiribati
Atlantis
Posts: 6,635
Mekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If Neubauer still was there... Would have a very interesting advice from him!
Mekola is offline  
Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Supercars 2021 Media Rights peckstar Australasian Touring Cars. 373 21 Apr 2021 11:56
[Diecast/Models] The "Flying Mercedes" Liz Armchair Enthusiast 18 12 Oct 2000 22:37
Mercedes Benz to pull out and end of the year? Robin Plummer ChampCar World Series 1 27 Jul 2000 23:45
Pre-war Mercedes and Auto Union GP cars fatbloke Motorsport History 1 8 Apr 2000 22:15


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.