[BTCC] BTCC 2020 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Well, construction companies have, where possible, restarted so an open space should be a doddle.

I assume winter painting work, track alterations etc have been completed before the lockdown.

It is the day to day cleaning, catering resupplies, grass cutting etc that would take the time. I don't suppose you can cut the grass runoff in an afternoon or two.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by mark_l

It is the day to day cleaning, catering resupplies, grass cutting etc that would take the time. I don't suppose you can cut the grass runoff in an afternoon or two.

Circuits are still doing some maintenance work, so may not as much trouble you think to start back up.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...-racing-season

“All of our main staff have been furloughed, the senior managers are working from home and the managerial staff at Thruxton, Pembrey and Croft are going in to do the maintenance work that’s required to keep the circuits operational for when we can run events again,” says Watson. “It’s the silly little things, like when you arrive at Thruxton we’ve got two great big grass car parks. Well if we leave that grass to grow for three months unattended, then we won’t get anybody in them when we do re-open!”

[redshoes]

https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/...ng-btcc-events
Autosport story on the opening BTCC rounds being open to restricted spectator number. A couple of interesting quote regarding how circuits are better equipped to hand spectator events.

"You've got 400 acres at Brands Hatch for example, so having a modest number of spectators is something which could be achieved and entirely consistent with the government's policy on social distancing, but there's a huge amount of uncertainty there."

Surely that 400 acres includes all the car parks and GP loop. Neither are what you would consider spectator areas for a race on the Indy circuit.

"We're not talking 30,000 people in a closed football stadium environment with everybody 30cm away from each other in a grandstand. It's a very different situation at a circuit."

Outside of Paddock and around Druids at a BTCC meeting are exactly like that; you are standing shoulder to shoulder with other people.

"We have 220 acres, and it's a very different proposition to a football stadium, and that's why we need clarification from the government and Motorsport UK, but I'd rather be stood at Knockhill than in a supermarket!

Again, 220 acres is the total area of land. You can't stand in most of the infield, so that rules out a big chunk of that number.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Outside of Paddock and around Druids at a BTCC meeting are exactly like that; you are standing shoulder to shoulder with other people.

This is part of the challenge. How do we expect BTCC fans who expect that, to accept this:



Although I think holding events at Knockhill in December might be a start!

[RS67]

Originally Posted by redshoes

https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/...ng-btcc-events
Autosport story on the opening BTCC rounds being open to restricted spectator number. A couple of interesting quote regardin8g how circuits are better equipped to hand spectator events.


Surely that 400 acres includes all the car parks and GP loop. Neither are what you would consider spectator areas for a race on the Indy circuit.


Outside of Paddock and around Druids at a BTCC meeting are exactly like that; you are standing shoulder to shoulder with other people.

Simple answer is you restrict the number of people sitting or standing in one place. Restrict the number of cars parking on the South Bank and suddenly you have a large area where people can view from and still social distance. If what Hancock said to Chris Evans the other morning about not leaving your home county without good reason, which I would say was work, wedding or funeral, you will probably be lucky to get near 10k spectators, let alone 30k. I would expect it to be as low as 5k.

[S griffin]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a low number either, with it being limited to the county you’re not suddenly going to get the whole population of one county going

[Sodemo]

We don't have a circuit in our county. Our nearest are Donington and Silverstone.

[deley]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

We don't have a circuit in our county. Our nearest are Donington and Silverstone.

You'll have to move house ....

Seriously though no one knows and the suggestion of "within your county" was an example of how things might pan out and certainly not at this time anything definite.

Looking like Johnson & Co. will be enlightening the masses on Sunday although I don't believe that it would be covering every scenario at this stage.

[Alfisti]

I think the county idea was just that: an idea to gauge reaction. Distance as crow flies would be a better measure if geographical restrictions were being seriously considered.

Take Knockhill. Edinburgh is on it's doorstep but is Midlothian, not Fife. Fife is pretty big but there are sub 400K people who live there. Edinburgh is about 500K people. You'd be removing a massive section of possible, even probable, race goers.

[VIVA GT]

Sorry folks (please bear with me while I pause to put on a suit of armour) but unfortunately I really don't see any spectators being allowed in to watch The BTCC this year. Due to the huge (although not as huge as the circuits are claiming) areas it will be impossible to police social distancing within the circuit, and to do so, would require 1000's more stewards to do this which would reduce the potential spectator numbers even more. Getting everyone through the gate in & out whilst keeping the statutory 2 metres distance would take forever, how long has it taken to get 50 people into Sainsburys following these regulations, never mind a few 1000 (on top of the necessary personnel such as team members, admin, medical staff, marshals and so on) trying to get into a race circuit. (How long did it take everyone to get into Donington last year, and that was without social distancing). Hopefully TOCA will be able to come up with a plan for the meetings to be held behind closed doors and if that happens we can at least get to see some BTCC action on our TV screens but sadly, I think that is clearly the best case scenario, it may not even happen at all.
Moving on from this... The whole world has experienced this change in circumstances, but the effects of the lock down appear to be working. Does anyone really think it's OK to turn this thing back around so that a load more people lose members of their families just so you can go to Brands Hatch to cheer on your favourites and boo at your favourite BTCC villains? And I say this as an over 60 year old died in the wool, life-long motor sport fan.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by RS67

Simple answer is you restrict the number of people sitting or standing in one place. Restrict the number of cars parking on the South Bank and suddenly you have a large area where people can view from and still social distance. If what Hancock said to Chris Evans the other morning about not leaving your home county without good reason, which I would say was work, wedding or funeral, you will probably be lucky to get near 10k spectators, let alone 30k. I would expect it to be as low as 5k.

There are ways to do it. My comment/criticism was more aimed at the idea that there are literally hundreds of acres so it will be no bother.

5k is optimistic, I was thinking half that. It not just the dividing the area into 2m square and giving everyone an assigned spot, there are other considerations. How many entrances there are as you don't want people having to queue together at the ticket barrier. What about toilets; I'm not thinking about the number of cubicles but the fact that most of the block don't have a lot of space to get in/out.

[thetool]

If they are going to restrict attendances to that low a number, it is not worth having a crowd at all. As much as people may wish otherwise, I really don't see a BTCC round being run until it can be run with a full live crowd and largely unrestricted. However long that may take to be feasible.

Having a crowd of just a couple of thousand will mean the circuits can't cover their expenses. It would be more expensive than not allowing spectators at all. And even if they have no spectators, someone is still going to have to pay for the policing the event will require to ensure people don't turn up.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

We don't have a circuit in our county. Our nearest are Donington and Silverstone.

Same here. Living in Hertfordshire we’ve only got the Hoddesdon kart track and I don’t the BTCC going there anytime soon

[medius]

Easy way to restrict attendance, pre-register for tickets, then pick 250 or whatever figure you require from that list of applicants like the Renault World Series days. just make them pay for it.

It'll be a strange season so watching on telly might well be the best way to consume it this year.

[Mike_Powell]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Swhilst keeping the statutory 2 metres distance .[/I]

So how would marshals be expected to deal with an incident involving several cars where one is inverted with the driver trapped, another could be moved by pushing and the 3rd car is in bits across the track ?

Sadly, I don't think we'll see much at all in the way of domestic racing this year - that means 2 winters shrinkage of the probans !

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike_Powell

So how would marshals be expected to deal with an incident involving several cars where one is inverted with the driver trapped, another could be moved by pushing and the 3rd car is in bits across the track ?

Because if the restrictions are lifted enough for the activity to take place, and that scenario can be expected as part of that activity, then the individuals involved can proceed.

How do you think contact sports expect to get around distancing?

They don't. Once their activity is permitted, then risks are mitigated or the activity modified AFARP.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Sorry folks (please bear with me while I pause to put on a suit of armour) but unfortunately I really don't see any spectators being allowed in to watch The BTCC this year. Due to the huge (although not as huge as the circuits are claiming) areas it will be impossible to police social distancing within the circuit, and to do so, would require 1000's more stewards to do this which would reduce the potential spectator numbers even more. Getting everyone through the gate in & out whilst keeping the statutory 2 metres distance would take forever, how long has it taken to get 50 people into Sainsburys following these regulations, never mind a few 1000 (on top of the necessary personnel such as team members, admin, medical staff, marshals and so on) trying to get into a race circuit. (How long did it take everyone to get into Donington last year, and that was without social distancing). Hopefully TOCA will be able to come up with a plan for the meetings to be held behind closed doors and if that happens we can at least get to see some BTCC action on our TV screens but sadly, I think that is clearly the best case scenario, it may not even happen at all.
Moving on from this... The whole world has experienced this change in circumstances, but the effects of the lock down appear to be working. Does anyone really think it's OK to turn this thing back around so that a load more people lose members of their families just so you can go to Brands Hatch to cheer on your favourites and boo at your favourite BTCC villains? And I say this as an over 60 year old died in the wool, life-long motor sport fan.

I can't speak for Sainsbury's but at our local Tesco, 50 people would probably take 15-20 minutes, but that is only hampered by having to wait for people to exit plus there is only one entrance. If tickets are limited to just online sales, it is as long as it takes to scan a ticket so 50 people could get in within minutes. Brands Hatch has 5 entrances, 6 if you use the main gate exit as an entrance too. Team personnel usually have their own car park, at some tracks that is inside the circuit. Marshall's officials etc also normally park inside the circuits.
The only real bottlenecks I can think of will be toilets. Each track would have to put in temporary toilets like Goodwood does for the Festival of Speed.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by RS67

Brands Hatch has 5 entrances, 6 if you use the main gate exit as an entrance too. Team personnel usually have their own car park, at some tracks that is inside the circuit. Marshall's officials etc also normally park inside the circuits.

For spectators at Brands, I would only count the main gate and the gate from the big car park near the camping area. Even if there are separate lines to check tickets you are still funnelling people into the same area. However, I suspect the problem will not be getting in but getting out. People tend to naturally stagger their arrive times so you get a steady flow over a longer period. After the last race, everyone heads to the exits at the same time.

[S griffin]

Hmm, I wonder if there is anything to make sure there isn’t a mass exodus? Maybe they would need to be ferried out a certain number at the time. Certainly something they would need to consider

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Hmm, I wonder if there is anything to make sure there isn’t a mass exodus? Maybe they would need to be ferried out a certain number at the time. Certainly something they would need to consider

And who do you think is going to carry out crowd control on that level?
Do you honestly think a BTCC crowd would gladly wait around a few hours until it is their turn to leave?

If there's one place that is more determined about making up a car length than a BTCC field heading into Paddock Hill, it's a BTCC crowd trying to get past the Thistle Hotel....

[S griffin]

Did I say anything about waiting for hours? No I didn’t. Just remember crowds won’t be as big as usual

[kipper]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Did I say anything about waiting for hours? No I didn’t. Just remember crowds won’t be as big as usual

Crowds won't be anywhere near as big as normal. However, it is probably fair to say that there will need to be some controls on people leaving the venue. Inevitably, this will take time. Some people might even decide that its not worth such a delay and won't want to attend in the first instance.

One thought that springs to mind is that the timetabling of the event could help. Should a few races be run after the last BTCC race, some spectators will probably leave as soon as possible afterwards (particularly if its cold and wet), others will want to stay and see all the races, which naturally results in a series of more staggered departures.

[S griffin]

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. Have 2 or 3 races after the final BTCC races, then it will be easier to flow out. Makes perfect sense

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Maybe they would need to be ferried out a certain number at the time.

= hours of waiting around to be ferried out, even with a reduced BTCC crowd.

Just look at Croft last year to see how tricky things can get with wet ground, so the management of crowd routes later in the year is even more challenging.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. Have 2 or 3 races after the final BTCC races, then it will be easier to flow out. Makes perfect sense

That might keep 10% of the crowd back, but means the BTCC rounds are squeezed even tighter in terms of timing.