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11 Oct 2020, 06:43 (Ref:4009697) | #76 | ||
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Many of the fan favourites were the ones that were NOT V8s! Fans would have been cheering on their preferred inline Nissan four or six, screaming rotary Mazda, wailing V6 Ford Mondeo, rorty BMW 3 Series 4 cylinder, throaty Toyota 4AGE, beautiful Alfa Romeo Twinspark 4 cylinder, howling Volvo 5 cylinder and so on but these competitors were essentially told to go away and that were unwelcome in the ATCC... Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 11 Oct 2020 at 06:49. |
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11 Oct 2020, 06:52 (Ref:4009699) | #77 | |||
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5L V8 were either banned or rendered uncompetitive. Even so the BMW 5 Series was a large sedan that came with a V8 and was STILL told that it was not welcome to compete (which is ridiculous). What could have been. Quote:
I think you've got "Australians racing fans want V8s" mixed up with "Holden Commodore and Ford Falcon fans want V8s"! The disappointment of Holden fans that Holden won't exist to race in the ATCC in 2022 onwards, is surely not a patch on the (George) fury that Nissan fans would have felt when the 1993 Touring Car regulations were announced apparently to specifically exclude Nissan! For example, why didn't they just ban AWD? Banning AWD, and then using a suitable equivalence between turbocharged vehicles up to 2500cc for RWD Skyline & Sierra and NA up to 5000cc for RWD Commodores & Falcons would have been a far more sensible regulation. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 11 Oct 2020 at 07:03. |
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11 Oct 2020, 14:33 (Ref:4009834) | #78 | ||
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11 Oct 2020, 14:37 (Ref:4009838) | #79 | |||
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11 Oct 2020, 14:41 (Ref:4009845) | #80 | ||
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11 Oct 2020, 22:17 (Ref:4010004) | #81 | |
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11 Oct 2020, 22:18 (Ref:4010005) | #82 | |||
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Surely it's a perversion that some powers-that-be decided to turn it into the Australian Falcon & Commodore championship. Quote:
Wouldn't you prefer BMWs, Ford turbos, Volvo turbos, Mitsubishi turbos, Toyota turbos and Nissans turbos going at it? How can not providing a turbocharged capacity equivalence and thereby rendering a fleet of Sierras, Skylines, Supras & Starions touring cars ineligible be considered acceptable!? The variety of manufacturers was far more fun than samey pushrod crossplane V8s, with road-going "homologation specials" (HDT VK SS) that were generally fairly softly sprung and didn't handle anything like the pukka tourer... Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 11 Oct 2020 at 22:24. |
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12 Oct 2020, 00:22 (Ref:4010022) | #83 | ||
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"Your biggest auto race may one day become a Camaro playground", Chris Economaki, Bathurst 1979 |
12 Oct 2020, 05:53 (Ref:4010058) | #84 | ||
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Tesla wins Bathurst...
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12 Oct 2020, 06:26 (Ref:4010061) | #85 | |
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I hope all the people that yearn for 4 cylinders etc attend in their droves for TCR.
Personally once supercars stop racing V8's ill probably switch off and stop attending. It seems that supercars feel many others will do the same and therefore they want to retain that V8 DNA in Gen 3. |
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12 Oct 2020, 10:03 (Ref:4010101) | #86 | |
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If they want to change to 4 cylinders we would lose the DNA of the series. As you say there's always TCR to wet some people's appetite
But the series I'm sure will go on. Supercars has enough going for it and as long as we have enough of the grid and enough top quality drivers it will continue |
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12 Oct 2020, 13:33 (Ref:4010150) | #87 | |||
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12 Oct 2020, 21:20 (Ref:4010230) | #88 | ||||
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The four-cylinders sure look like entertaining fire-breathing beasts to me! Quote:
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My favourite car is certainly not a V8, it's the good old NSX Type R with the 3.2 V6. Total driver confidence! Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 12 Oct 2020 at 21:35. |
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12 Oct 2020, 21:57 (Ref:4010241) | #89 | ||||
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Getting rid of V8s would certainly change the DNA of the current series - may well happen but let's not pretend that if it does happen, it will be anything other than a MAJOR change to what the series looks and sounds like - changing the core DNA in the process. Quote:
To use the heavily-quoted advertisement from back in the Holden Dealer Team days: "There is nothing quite like a V8" - it's a feeling and philosophy that still rings true for many. |
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12 Oct 2020, 22:28 (Ref:4010250) | #90 | |||
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Talk about a circular argument, "the DNA is V8s because the rules banned everything but V8s". (What!?) Even at the time, the V8 rules were regressive rules were they not? Even at the time, turbos were the future, and turbos certainly are the present (albeit EV now the future)... Why pushrod-V8-only rules that harked back to the 1970's were implemented (while also excluding most manufacturer teams like Nissan, BMW, Toyota, Mitsubishi and later Audi & Volvo) is really a mystery... The rules were so uninviting to manufacturers, that you had to go elsewhere to see your gripping Nissan vs Volvo battles that not long before were the drawcard of the ATCC: https://youtu.be/ErXThnVVtT8?t=3081 (great stuff!) Quote:
Besides the Group A Commodores went to 8500rpm and had a lovely high-pitched fury: https://youtu.be/-bbZplBfzBw?t=35 (great stuff! ), instead of the lazy 7500rpm of the 3A rules (or even lower revs of a road going V8 Falcon or Commodore ). Many aspire to own a car like a E60 BMW M5 or C6 Audi S6 which have 10 cylinders arranged in a Vee, instead of a mere 8, or even a W211 Mercedes S600 with not 8 but 12 cylinders arranged in a Vee after all. The more, the merrier! Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 12 Oct 2020 at 22:52. |
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13 Oct 2020, 00:47 (Ref:4010258) | #91 | |
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13 Oct 2020, 02:00 (Ref:4010264) | #92 | ||
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Of course you can. by the logic of what you've posted here, the ATCC finished and its history could not be claimed as soon as the technical rules changed from the first iteration. We've had production, improved production, Group C, Group A, now the current cars as examples, all of which can claim the history of the ATCC as they compete for that title.
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
13 Oct 2020, 03:19 (Ref:4010266) | #93 | |
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I think this could be argued about till the cows come home.
A large percentage want V8 engines Another percentage want 4/6 cylinder turbo cars Another percentage want TCR Another percentage want GT3 engines And a very tiny percentage want EV At the end of the day Supercars class are unique to Australia and therefore the audience would have different tastes and attitudes compared to the Europe. Hell look at the controversy the new Nextgen nascar is causing, aligning it rules closer to supercars with 18in centrehub wheels, sequential gearbox, IRS, spec chassis and refueling systems like supercar. Many Nascar supporters feel this is leaving the DNA of what made nascar so popular. |
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13 Oct 2020, 04:38 (Ref:4010276) | #94 | |
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NASCAR are in the same pickle bottle as SC, no new platforms coming through to base the race cars on.
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13 Oct 2020, 06:12 (Ref:4010285) | #95 | ||
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If you want to combine the two then how can you also claim going away from V8’s changes the series DNA, when non-V8s have been welcome to play for far longer than it was decreed V8s only? |
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13 Oct 2020, 07:13 (Ref:4010296) | #96 | |
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It's a similar but different series to the ATCC. Some things have been carried over, as well as new innovation coming in and it's still going strong enough. The thing is V8s still work, but even if it did change, it's not the end of the world. We have to see how the rules work over the next few years, but we've had a good run out and I hope we have a great new era of Australian Supercars on the horizon
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13 Oct 2020, 18:21 (Ref:4010454) | #97 | |||
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Don't want to sound too nit-picky but I said going away from 8 cylinder engines in Vee configuration would change the current series DNA, not the DNA of the ATCC in its entirety - two completely different things. |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
14 Oct 2020, 00:59 (Ref:4010500) | #98 | ||
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Perhaps there was an agenda to push back in the early days of AVESCO? So they are two completely different things, but you want to combine them when it comes to the history? |
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14 Oct 2020, 01:04 (Ref:4010501) | #99 | |||
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It wasn't until someone else approached CAMS and wanted to run a championship to award the ATCC title to, that Supercars started to care about it. |
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14 Oct 2020, 07:55 (Ref:4010527) | #100 | |||
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Did they deride or did they simply ignore? 2 different things but I'll agree that they didn't say much about the history for the first 3-5 years.
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You keep referring to the DNA of the entire ATCC, which has had a multiple number of iterations with their own DNA over the years and which the current series contributes to and is part of. Those are the "two different things" that I refer to. |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
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