BRSCC gone mad?

[Rod Birley]

Nice pictures Falsemob. Eric won a trophy, which I have got for him. Hope to see you at Lydden. In answer to Graham's change of car issue see regulation B 12.1.12. This was adhered to but message did not get to race control, something to do with phone not working. The point is how these issues are handled. The drivers are paying customers after all.

[Stephen Green]

On Saturday the phones were down I agree, nothing new at Brands Hatch these days I'm afraid. Observers had to use radios to communicate with Race Control. Saw you on the way to Race Control Rod, gave a little wave from post 2

[Bob Pearson]

The clerks may be an MSA appointment, but in the case of the BARC clerks they are also BARC employees. Are the clerks at BRSCC also BRSCC employees.
Flagman gave 4 actions to take if you are unhappy with the BRSCC, he missed out the 5th and most effective,- don't go there again until they learn to treat their customers like human beings.

[Piglet]

To clarify regarding Clerks:

Clerks are licenced by the MSA (after following a training process)

Individual Clubs/Championships then choose which Clerks they wish to use, the MSA does not choose who does what.

Some BARC Clerks are employed (probably only perhaps 3 that I can think of?), other than that they are regular volunteers.

Not sure about BRSCC, I imagine they may well have a couple of employees who also clerk but I doubt that the majority of their Clerks are employees.

[Snapper Baz]

...and Stephen, (other than too many meetings on at the same time) why are marshal numbers dropping? You never see Chris bringing hoards of trainee marshals around now like you did a few years ago-there must be a reason? If I was a complete novice marshal trying to get into the sport I would probably look at ALL the race/marshal clubs and see what would give me the best return for my outlay (club fee's etc)- I doubt that the BRSCC would give me much in the way of return compared to other clubs-or would they?? Perhaps some marshals could give their say...

[Stephen Green]

To a large degree it depends on the circuit closest to you Barry. For example, when I started marshalling the BRSCC organised almost 90% of the meetings at Brands Hatch, the now defunct Brands Hatch Racing Club the rest. Therefore, if you wanted to marshal at Brands Hatch it made sense to join the BRSCC, especially if you wished to marshal at the premier events.

These days of course there are so many clubs running meetings that you have to be a member of multiple clubs. For me it's BRSCC, BARC, BRDC and BMMC, probably around £100 a year in membership fees!

Marshal numbers have been dropping for years as we all know, but there are other threads in existance to discuss that issue.

[Tim Falce]

Nice pictures Falsemob. Eric won a trophy
Thanks for that Rod. As the race finished the commentator said Eric was second in class so we didnt hang around. It wasnt till I got the full results from the web on Sunday night did I find out he was 1st in class. I will let him know that you have a trophy for him. When is the Lydden meeting?

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
These days of course there are so many clubs running meetings that you have to be a member of multiple clubs. For me it's BRSCC, BARC, BRDC and BMMC, probably around £100 a year in membership fees!

Why do you need to be a member of more than one club? As a BMMC member, I will be marshalling for eight different clubs this year, at four different circuits.

[Rod Birley]

Saturday 28th June is the next BARC meeting at Lydden.

[Tim Falce]

Maybe because you have to pay to be a member of all these clubs, is one of the reasons why there is shortage of marshalls.

[brsccnw]

Originally posted by Dave Brand
Why do you need to be a member of more than one club? As a BMMC member, I will be marshalling for eight different clubs this year, at four different circuits.

You don't have to be a member of any club what so ever to marshal at either Oulton Park or Anglesey and the same applies to most if not all circuits these days. If an individual wants to be a member of a club then its their choice.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by brsccnw
You don't have to be a member of any club what so ever to marshal at either Oulton Park or Anglesey and the same applies to most if not all circuits these days. If an individual wants to be a member of a club then its their choice.

The only problem I can see there is that, as far as I know, the MSA Grading Scheme requires membership of a club - the wording on the MSA card certainly implies this.

[brsccnw]

Originally posted by Dave Brand
The only problem I can see there is that, as far as I know, the MSA Grading Scheme requires membership of a club - the wording on the MSA card certainly implies this.

it does not require you to be a member of any club

[graham bahr]

just to go back to one of my origonal points does anyone know where it says in the blue book that you can be black flagged and excluded if you spin??????????

[JimW]

The only problem I can see there is that, as far as I know, the MSA Grading Scheme requires membership of a club - the wording on the MSA card certainly implies this.

Like so much the MSA does this impression is imprecise and badly expressed - or wrong as we might know it.

Sure it needs a club to "sponsor" you by putting your name forward. But many will do that without requiring you to pay them for membership. E.G. the BARC. (I don't know about the BRSCC but I suspect so.)

And the BARC give tokens ("Stamps") which can be exchanged at the end of a year for credit against membership.

So money for club membership is not a pre-requisite for marshalling. After all you are a shortage good! Exploit your economic value.

[Personal view]But I still would hope that many people would feel that joining the BMMC (The Marshal's Club) was a good way to be a member of a wider body of marshalling enthusiasts and the only club which only exists for marshals and marshalling. Whatever our shortcomings. [/Personal view]

Regards

Jim

[Stephen Green]

And back to Graham's question please folks.......

[Eric Falce]

I can remember a watching a certain young scotts bloke called Jimmy Clark trying to sort out a special at Brands Indy circuit,I think they called it a Lotus 30.He must have spun about 8 times in about an hour and a half practicing. I cant remember the exact words he used to another guy called Colin Chapman,but surprisinly no marshals lodged any objections to his driving,but my experiance now is still much the same as in the supposed good old days.
By the way apparently I won a trophy on Sunday and Rod is holding it for me,I will have to contact him as it is the first trophy I have ever won at motor racing

[Ian-S]

Wasn't it Enzo Ferrari that once said "if you don't spin, your not going fast enough"?

Fair enough, have a chat with the guy, and ASK him why he kept spinning, but don't threaten to exclude him if he does it again, especially if he's had problems with the car.

Just ignore them mate, I remember being hauled over the coal for overtaking under yellows at Silverstone on the exit of Woodcote, I won't go into detail, but surfice to say, it was a choice, goto the left of the slow car & kill a marshall on the track, hit the slower car and pray, or goto the right and overtake, surfice to say, I took the last option, only to be hauled for it.

[R59]

I concur with Graham, where in the blue book does it say that to spin is to be black flagged?

I remember back in 1994, racing at Brands, being hauled before the CoC for crossing the minefield barrier that was the white line around the outside of Paddock. My race number - 59 - in my bright yellow Nova GTE. Also on the track at the same time, bright yellow Nova no 95, who DID cross the white line numerous times. The observer, who was allegedly awake at the time reported me. I went to see Bernard who would not listen to a word I said because the Observer's word was a statement of fact, and that was that.

However, 18months later, the same man let me qualify out of session, on my own, right at the end of the morning, when my fuel pump died on my original out lap, without the need for hours of begging and pleading.

I must say, that in my experience, BRSCC officials have become more unfriendly in the last four to five years. BRSCC meetings are the most expensive to enter, and in pounds per minute track time, offer the competitor the least amount of value. I defected to BARC last year, and I effectively get one extra race per year for the same money.

As for spins, I have never heard so much rhubarb in my life. If there is a technical problem that you can drive around, then drive, and show everyone how you can drive. In my experience as an instructor, I have come across lots of fast drivers who are utterly talentless when it comes to being out of control, yet are pretty good when the car is behaving and near of not on the limit.

Rod.. quick question - how about re-starting Thundersaloons to the old 50mile two driver rules... PLEASE!!!

Regards to all (including that disappearing band of flag waving orange overall wearing people who we need if we are going to commit engineering carnage at weekends!)

Rob.

[Tim Falce]

With regards to Racing59's or is it 95's statement about the BRSCC being expensive and unfriendly, people will vote with thier feet and like you, go elsewhere. Saying that, I am at Croft at the weekend with them, and yes, I think it is overpriced. As it is one of our championship races, I think got you by, and short and wotsits springs to mind.

[DarrellB]

They could consider that too many spins maybe seen as unsafe, look under E 5.1.8 (common regs for competitors) A driver must at all times drive in a manner compatible with general safety etc...

[Slowcoach]

I totally agree with racing59's comment to ROD - please there is a gap in the market for something like that - we would definitely run in any such races and I was pretty annoyed at missing out on the BRSCC 50 last year at BH due to holidays! Middle distance/two driver races (for older saloons?) - there seems to be plenty for pre 1970 and post 1990 but not alot for modified cars inbetween - would surely be popular !

[Snapper Baz]

Talking of spins...one driver put in a protest about being knocked off "a" circuit on Sunday, the clerk of the course asked for info from the relevent posts at/near the scene. One post missed the incident and only saw the car coming to rest on the grass while somebody from another post gave their thoughts on the incident...unfortunately they said it happened at a completely different corner from where it actually happened so the protest was thrown out due to not enough evidence....ooops!!