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13 Jul 2007, 10:12 (Ref:1962254) | #26 | ||
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sometimes you cannot help but not be looking at the traffic, A1GP prime example of trying to get strop through the roll hoop of a paticularly reluctant FF. I am not a chameleon and can only look in one direction at once. I had an IO watching my back but had he not been there i would have appriciated a whistle from Anyone when the pack came round. I'm not wanting to argue but I think overkill is better than being killed. Simple as.
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i'm easy to spot, i wear bright orange and at full speed have the turning circle of a small tanker |
13 Jul 2007, 12:28 (Ref:1962380) | #27 | |||
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13 Jul 2007, 12:40 (Ref:1962397) | #28 | |||
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Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
13 Jul 2007, 14:17 (Ref:1962486) | #29 | |||
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Regards Jim |
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13 Jul 2007, 16:23 (Ref:1962589) | #30 | |||
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On the left side of the pond, most of us carry whistles. There are certain sequences that the captain/observer uses to indicate flags but the rest just use them to get the captain's attention. These whistle signals usually precede the hand signals we use to communicate observations we have about the cars (such as leaking oil, dragging parts, turtle entering course, etc.). |
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I'm not tailgating, I'm keeping up with the pace car. |
13 Jul 2007, 17:13 (Ref:1962628) | #31 | |||
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Indeed, at certain posts it may be better if a warning whistle comes from a flaggie at an "In" flag point who may have better visibility of the preceding track so can give more warning. If there's any chance of confusion - discuss it at the morning on-post briefing! |
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DDMC Rescue Crew, Post Chief & Flag Marshal |
13 Jul 2007, 17:33 (Ref:1962648) | #32 | |||
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On the occasions when I run Assembly (usually Mallory) I sometimes use a whistle to alert drivers to start engines, follow parade cars, etc. At places like Donington with a big(ish) pit lane when we are short staffed a quick blast on the whistle can be useful when trying to clear the pit wall for the start of a race, and also to alert colleagues that something is amiss. A classic example of the latter was a few years ago at Silverstone. Ron Cummings in the Arrows had come into the pit lane during a practice session and pushed his car into his garage where it promptly burst into flames. I was the only one by the garage at the time so grabbed a bottle and blew my whistle simultaneously. I was joined by another couple of marshals very quickly |
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13 Jul 2007, 18:29 (Ref:1962673) | #33 | ||
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Its all down to circumstances and accepted practice, for my money, the Obs/IO are the only whistles I think should be used trackside, pit lane etc, dunno due to no experience.
With my Rallying Hat (shamag for those who know) on, every one should carry one, my set instruction to all marshals going in search of a lost car, "Blow it like bu66ery and some one will come" by the way, 25yr old Acme "Scout" had since I was a Scout, fittingly |
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14 Jul 2007, 14:45 (Ref:1963087) | #34 | ||
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I have seen whistles used more than once to stop spetators wandering in to areas they shouldnt be wandering in to, very successfully too
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15 Jul 2007, 20:59 (Ref:1963876) | #35 | ||
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It's definitely not good to use the whistle while the person next to you is using the radio... I think course control's ears fell off today at Shelsley!
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Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
16 Jul 2007, 08:18 (Ref:1964163) | #36 | ||
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depends which end of the radio you're on!
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16 Jul 2007, 13:48 (Ref:1964437) | #37 | |||
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I'm accustomed to the observer, or the de facto observer, being the only person on the post with a whistle; MarshalGirl has explained the reasons for that - I see no need for change. |
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16 Jul 2007, 14:10 (Ref:1964456) | #38 | |||
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In my opinion, everyone should be able to carry a whistle - and I would expect anyone backing up an incident (standing on the wall with an extinguisher etc.) to be ready with a whistle in case a driver does make a 'mistake', not just an observer stuck at the main post or an IO who may also be assisting at the incident and may not have their full attention on what is coming towards them. |
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16 Jul 2007, 14:19 (Ref:1964466) | #39 | ||
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In the four years I have been marshalling (considerably less that many I know) I have been accustomed to at least the Obs and Flags having whistles sometimes others.
Our safety is paramount but when you step over the other side of the bank instantly you are in danger, there are degrees of danger and by use of common sense and team work that danger is reduced. The situation i mention is without doubt the most dubious position i have been in, what should have been a simple snatch was made difficult but the car itself, but having a big heavy yellow thing to hide behind when the pack came round made it vastly safer. My point is not that though. My point is that if i am the dangerous side of the bank and something happens that I haven't anticipated or seen coming, I dont care who blows a whistle, if I am in a position of danger however I have come into this postion I want to hear some form of warning and if someone blows a whistle that alerts me to that danger so I can remove myself from harms way then I don't care if it was the Observer, Flaggies, Course who blew the whistle. I am a course marshal, in your view I should not have a whistle, however this weekend I was observer and flag on Saturday?? I would have been Whistleless. Ok i didn't need it but.....? Last edited by danccooke; 16 Jul 2007 at 14:28. |
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i'm easy to spot, i wear bright orange and at full speed have the turning circle of a small tanker |
16 Jul 2007, 14:36 (Ref:1964480) | #40 | ||||
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16 Jul 2007, 14:43 (Ref:1964482) | #41 | |||
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Regards Jim |
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16 Jul 2007, 14:52 (Ref:1964488) | #42 | ||
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Ok i was being ironic there but I maintain that there are times when more than the observer should have a whistle. Unless I am categorially told I am not to have a whistle on me then it will remain with me. If the observer is in his hut writing a report or calling in a situation. Looking down the track at an incident as another incident unfolds up track. I don't care but one person cannot have thier eyes in all directions at once. As good as you observers are (trust me i appriciate it a little more after saturday) you are not omnipotent and all seeing.
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i'm easy to spot, i wear bright orange and at full speed have the turning circle of a small tanker |
16 Jul 2007, 15:17 (Ref:1964505) | #43 | ||
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As a course marshal i always carry a whistle.
If i see something that the person responsible for blowing doesn`t see it. Then i can warn other marshals. Rule 1. Look after yourself Rule 2. Look after your fellow marshals. Rule 2 is why i keep a whistle on me. |
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16 Jul 2007, 15:26 (Ref:1964514) | #44 | |||
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16 Jul 2007, 16:12 (Ref:1964540) | #45 | |||
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Also - what happens if more than one car is off and your IO is dealing with one car while the observer is on the phone/radio? Who whistles to warn anyone of impending danger? On some posts with only one flag marshal they may be in a situation where they cannot get to their whistle or do not see a car coming in, and in that case I would want anyone on my team, no matter where they are standing or what they are doing (flag, track, observer), to be able to get my attention - with the best method being to use a whistle. |
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16 Jul 2007, 16:18 (Ref:1964543) | #46 | |||
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Last edited by Tangoman; 16 Jul 2007 at 16:20. |
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Protect me from what I want. |
16 Jul 2007, 16:41 (Ref:1964562) | #47 | ||
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Mc1arke glad we are both seeing this from the same perspective.
Saturday we only had three on post so one flagging and observer, two course, one of which was a trainee/novice/newbie whatever the PC term is these days. At one point was waving a yellow flag whilst having my head half in the hut on the phone calling it in. Didn't leave me with many options had I need to blow a whistle. |
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i'm easy to spot, i wear bright orange and at full speed have the turning circle of a small tanker |
16 Jul 2007, 18:12 (Ref:1964979) | #48 | ||
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I'm always haapy for other team members to carry and use a whistle. Clear instructions at the Post briefing: one long blast - look upstream, something is coming; two short blasts - look at the observers point, I'm trying to signal something (e.g. what recovery is required?).
And, because there are times when I'm in the hut talking to Race Control, I expect the team to keep watch on each other. |
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17 Jul 2007, 08:05 (Ref:1965418) | #49 | |
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To further clarify my earlier post stating that as Observer I request only myself and flags to carry whistles. I agree wholeheartedly with all the comments stating that there should at all times be someone available to whistle whilst we are trackside. The flags should never have their eyes off the track, I request that they act my eyes when I can't (talking to race control etc). Provided that I feel that there is sufficient 'whistle cover' between myself and flags I request that no other marshals carry them.
Aside from my concerns about people potentially being injured by having objects ripped from their necks I can recall 2 incidents where a whistle around the neck or attached to zips have delayed marshals getting to place of safety. In both incidents the marshals in question were about to return to the safe side of the bank. In the 1st instance the whistle hanging around their neck got caught around the wing mirror of a saloon car. In the 2nd the whistle that was in their pocket had come out whilst dealing with a single seater, it was attached to the zip, the whistle then became tangled around the wishbone. In both incidents they had to spend potentially precious seconds untangling themselves before returning to safety. PS I will be observing on Post 12 at Thruxton for trucks this weekend if anyone wants to say Hello or discuss my reasoning any further. |
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17 Jul 2007, 11:58 (Ref:1965643) | #50 | |||
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