Warwick asks for Government funds

[davyboy]

Well it can hardly be considered a sport when the so called elite purchase their way to the top. A half decent footballer couldn't buy himself a playing position at a Premier League Club. A half decent swimmer couldn't buy himself qualification to the World Championships. A half decent athlete couldn't buy himself qualification to the Olympics.

[chillibowl]

im sure there are exceptions and i am only making a very general point but the other sports you name all enjoy a considerable amount of public financing at the junior levels either through maintaining facilities and providing exposure to kids via school system etc. naturally these other sports promote based on talent. they can afford too.

[Armco Bender]

Maybe Bernie can cut his daughters allowances to sponsor some young drivers.....even if it does put the Italian handbag industry in peril of collapsing.

[Paradise City]

Cost is a clear factor. The money that is needed to develop in motorsport is pitiless and needs to be constantly replenished. I don't know about soccer but to develop in athletics, cycling..etc isn't near the expenditure required for motorsport but I wouldn't say it's cheap either in their own terms. In principle drivers, are entitled to support just as any other prosportsman. In practice, the difficulties multiply.

Cost is a big factor. But if I was to outline a decisive factor that would make a policy-maker baulk -it's the roulette nature of talentspotting. You could have a guy who blitzes F3 on the books but does nothing in F1. That could very easily happen. All that money invested in a guy asleep at the back of the F1 grid. What do you do then? Send him to NASCAR in a hopeless stab at getting some of that ROI? It's no wonder the British government gets taken ill when they see Warwick with his cap in hand. As I say I don't blame Warwick for having a pop at public money but he needs to promote a proposal containing plenty of what they term "synergies" for him to stand a chance.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

If Warwick and his pals really do want to do something about the underfunding of British F1 prospects (and they should!) then they have it within the realms of their own bank accounts to make a difference.

Apart from sponsoring their own sons or daughters however, they choose to do nothing.

No surprise really.

Warwick is not paid for the BRDC work, pays for his own expenses and uses his administration from his garage for BRDC work. Which takes up most of his time.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/ra...derek-warwick/
Talking about BRDC happens about 50 minutes onwards, but the whole thing is a good listen.

I agree that the government shouldn't help with money here. However I have to defend Warwick (and the others) after you had a go at them and demanded how they spend their money! They do put their own money into motorsport (and real notable causes) and, even if they didn't, which they are under no obligation to, they put a lot of time and effort in. All dismissed with a little tapping on a keyboard.

Sorry, this is a legitimate topic, but having a go at Warwick on a personal level isn't fair.

[Greem]

I think the original interview http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/...ish-motorsport is a bit clearer.

He makes the point quite eloquently that there isn't as much spare cash around for people starting out on a slicks'n'wings career - and then promotes the newly formed BRDC Formula 4. So it wasn't a simple opinion piece after all, the point was rather cleverly glossed over by Pitpass.

They win. We all read it, and it got us all talking!

[Flavio Galtieri]

This isn't about Warwick, I'm sure he works very hard at his unpaid role.

It's about thinking before you speak. It's about asking yourself how others might perceive the begging bowl thrust before a cash-strapped government from a representative of one of the richest, most elitist sports on the planet.

All I was trying to do was to flag up how others, not little ol' me, would see this and tear the sport to shreds on the grounds of crass hypocrisy. It's an open goal.

What shall we cut in order to fund from taxpayers cash our next F1 star? A hospital, a few midwives perhaps? How many votes do you think will be in that?

It's a potential PR disaster, that's all, and there are far better ways of doing it.

[JimW]

Regards

Jim

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

This isn't about Warwick, I'm sure he works very hard at his unpaid role.

It's about thinking before you speak. It's about asking yourself how others might perceive the begging bowl thrust before a cash-strapped government from a representative of one of the richest, most elitist sports on the planet.

All I was trying to do was to flag up how others, not little ol' me, would see this and tear the sport to shreds on the grounds of crass hypocrisy. It's an open goal.

What shall we cut in order to fund from taxpayers cash our next F1 star? A hospital, a few midwives perhaps? How many votes do you think will be in that?

It's a potential PR disaster, that's all, and there are far better ways of doing it.

He's not this hypocrite that you alluded to and asking for parity for drivers that other sportsmen enjoy is not some kind of scandalous inquiry. He's doing no more than what many other sporting interest group will be doing.

OK. He's been dysfunctional with the press but I doubt anyone outside the trade notices still less cares so I don't see this 'PR disaster'.

The debate between spending on health versus arts, culture, sport is an old, old debate; it's not some left-side 'new controversy'; the stuff of stunning 'PR disasters' that will scandalise the masses.

[Flavio Galtieri]

OK fine.

Let's see if it makes the nationals, and how things play out.

[Greem]

I'd quite like to see (a transcript of) the original interview, in chronological order of question & reply.

I would lay money on the fact that the article(s) have been written in a way which masks what was really asked, and really said - and changed the order, too.

[Derwent Motorsp]

The issue is that there are actually very few "professional" racing drivers who actually get paid for what they do. Perhaps less now than some years ago. We have 4 in F1 (one has bought his way in!) and perhaps a dozen or so more in sports/GT and in American series.
When there is Lottery funding for sports it starts much further down with getting increased participation at club level and also training for the potential Olympic athletes. I don't see any point in pouring money into potential GP drivers. Did any of the 4 F1 drivers come through the MSA schemes? Most of the race and rally drivers on the MSAAcademy fizzle out because there are just not enough paid drivers to go round and there are others from other countries that come with bags of cash.
The BRDC have themselves to blame since they stopped running their own events which would have given them a good income. They have built the Wing which is hardly used but was needed to keep BE happy and at the same time ruined the track for clubby events while many clubs just cannot afford the hire fee. We now have two circuits, one too short and one too long!
If motorsport can get funding then it should be for grass roots folk, the people who buy lottery tickets and pay UK taxes.
Far too often we see leading drivers saying how we need to support the sport etc through things like National Motorsport Week but how many of them even attend events during it, let alone put in a bit of cash?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

OK fine.

Let's see if it makes the nationals, and how things play out.

I guess they might have a misinformed view along the lines of your personal accusations in your opening post.

You might have unfairly and without apology accused Warwick of hypocrisy, but I suppose you did perfectly demonstrate what can happen with lazy journalism where a good story is more important than the real discussion.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Greem

I would lay money on the fact that the article(s) have been written in a way which masks what was really asked, and really said - and changed the order, too.

Maybe.

It's always easier to shoot the messenger.

After all, that's what politicians try to do.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I guess they might have a misinformed view along the lines of your personal accusations in your opening post.

You might have unfairly and without apology accused Warwick of hypocrisy, but I suppose you did perfectly demonstrate what can happen with lazy journalism where a good story is more important than the real discussion.

I think if you re-read what I said, I did not accuse Warwick of hypocrisy.

I was pointing out that others may well do so.

There is a distinction, and you demonstrate my point very well.

Thank you.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

It's always easier to shoot the messenger.

After all, that's what politicians try to do.

I have never been so insulted in all my life!

Oh. Yes, I have.

A politician! Ptchah. I'll see you in the car park, sir

[Adam43]

Sorry, my mistake, because you wrote those things I thought it was your opinion. I missed the bit where you said this is an example of what could happen!

Or is this another example? Perhaps with your later reference to politician we are being demonstrated the impact of a u-turn?

Good example, had me fooled.

[Paradise City]

It's a quickie article done in five minutes. There's no conscious attempt to misrepresent Warwick but with a quickie-article on a complex issue the whole truth doesn't come out. Quickie-articles are fine for announcements and stuff of the snippet type but don't do justice to complex issues.

[chillibowl]

also just read the interview from the Sky link that Greem posted...it doesnt sound like he is talking about a lot of money. from the way he describes it, it only sounds like at most a few million a year spread over a few dozen kids on a domestic race series.

[Moneyseeker]

Problem is that few people who pay taxes and by lotto tickets believe we 'need' racing drivers, whereas it's perceived we need athletes, rowers, etc to represent the country in major games and championships, so people see why they need to fund them.

Progression is also the issue, you need to at least double the amount of money you spend every year and that's based on 1 season per formula when in reality it is more like 2, so even more investment.

F4 looks a good car, but the question remains where does the championship winner or front runner find the jump up to £200/250K to move up to the next step. In that regard cheap entry level series are pointless as if you don't have the money to progress it's a waste of money and effort.

The harsh reality is, if you don't have the money to fund yourself a long way up the ladder, don't put yourself through the angst of trying. No amount of hand wringing will change that, sadly.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Problem is that few people who pay taxes and by lotto tickets believe we 'need' racing drivers, whereas it's perceived we need athletes, rowers, etc to represent the country in major games and championships, so people see why they need to fund them.

Moving to one side of the issue of money for a moment, another difference between these situations is that the athletes, even the footballers, have the potential to represent their nation at international sporting events. The concept of a driver representing their nation doesn't exist in motor sport. From floor to ceiling its 100% a commercial industry.

[Adam43]

I see your point. Although that is only missing out representing their country in a country v country context. They do have the potential to represent their country in a global sport even if competing as themselves not their country as such. And in a sport that is related to an industry too, unlike other sports.
Of course we all represent our country, in a lesser manner.

Not that I am advocating direct government funding.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Not that I am advocating direct government funding.

Warwick is though.

So I guess we agree!

[Paradise City]

They unfurl a big enough flag at the end of it and pump out a loud enough anthem. The entire nation is very alive to the fact that Hambo and Button are Brits. Clearly these guys are representing their country in a very real and vivid sense just not in the formal sense. They are doing this regularly too, more regularly than the (Soccer) WC/ and Olympics at least.

I would say the prohibitive costs and the highly speculative nature of talentspotting would result in a refusal for public funds in relation to drivers. That all comes in with the detail but in principle there's no reason pro-drivers shouldn't be treated like any other pro-athletes.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I would say the prohibitive costs and the highly speculative nature of talentspotting would result in a refusal for public funds in relation to drivers. That all comes in with the detail but in principle there's no reason pro-drivers shouldn't be treated like any other pro-athletes.

As von Bismarck once said, "Politics is the art of the possible". Principles don't matter.

That's why it won't happen and it was stupid to suggest it in the first place.