Warwick asks for Government funds

[Flavio Galtieri]

http://www.pitpass.com/48240-Warwick...rnment-funding

Rarely have I seen a better example of how out of touch, incredibly insensitive and just hopelessly living in a dream world the BRDC has become.

The very thought of taxpayers funding the careers of racing drivers who, at the very first paycheque, take themselves out of the UK tax jurisdiction to live abroad in luxury is not only daft but downright offensive.

If Warwick and his pals really do want to do something about the underfunding of British F1 prospects (and they should!) then they have it within the realms of their own bank accounts to make a difference.

Apart from sponsoring their own sons or daughters however, they choose to do nothing.

No surprise really.

[Paradise City]

Well, he is head of the BRDC and 'D' is for 'drivers'. He'd be remiss in his role if he didn't have a crack at some public funding. Whether the authorities should entertain his appeal is a completely different question.

[Greem]

When there are increasing numbers drivers resorting to sites like GoFundMe in order to raise funds to complete a season by having their fans chip in, I think DW's comments have some merit. He's not talking about funding JB & co in F1, but the fact that people with massive talent at the bottom of the racing ladder all too often get zero support.

Certain other sports are having a lot of cash invested in them - in part because of the groundswell of public support after the Olympics. Would be nice if some money was made available to young drivers to allow them to fulfil their potential.

It's a perfectly fair comparison, in my opinion.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

He'd be remiss in his role if he didn't have a crack at some public funding.

Why?

How on earth should acquiring public funding possibly be part of his agenda?
Or should everything run by the richest in society that then fails be publicly funded now?

It's just a complete lack of imagination and leadership, that's all.

[Marbot]

I just feel sorry for the drivers with natural talent that can't even afford to go karting. At what point do we start 'funding' young drivers? After Daddy has paid for them to go karting, or before?

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

Why?

How on earth should acquiring public funding possibly be part of his agenda?
Or should everything run by the richest in society that then fails be publicly funded now?

It's just a complete lack of imagination and leadership, that's all.

As representative of his group, he's remit is to maximise the interests of his organisation and hunt for money wherever he can find it. That's part of leadership. Both public and private. He has to justify it too, that's part of leadership, again. It's then within the perogative of government to refuse or grant his request.

I don't deny any private group to lay out their stall in request for public funds. What merits scrutiny is the manner in which public authorities assess such applications.

Now whether the BRDC have been remiss in hunting for private finance has not been established to my satisfaction. There maybe be merit in that criticism but applying for public funds is very reasonably within his remit as representative of his interest group.

[Aysedasi]

I see nothing wrong with it at all, personally. No different to any other sportsmen or women. The assumption that everyone involved in motor racing is rich is somewhat flawed, I think.....

[Moneyseeker]

Perception is key here - how many people regard motor racing as sport these days?

Whereas cycling, swimming, athletics are seen as core sports that derive a range of benefits and encompass team sports and have fitness and health benefits that can filter down to grass roots clubs, schools, etc.

I doubt that much UK government money would ever go into funding drivers, believing that there is plenty of money within the motor and motor racing industry to fund drivers if they wanted to.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

As representative of his group, he's remit is to maximise the interests of his organisation and hunt for money wherever he can find it. That's part of leadership. Both public and private. He has to justify it too, that's part of leadership, again. It's then within the perogative of government to refuse or grant his request.

I don't deny any private group to lay out their stall in request for public funds. What merits scrutiny is the manner in which public authorities assess such applications.

Now whether the BRDC have been remiss in hunting for private finance has not been established to my satisfaction. There maybe be merit in that criticism but applying for public funds is very reasonably within his remit as representative of his interest group.

The reason Warwick shouldn't have done it is simply because he is undermining his role and potentially bringing the BRDC into disrepute. This will never happen and it's one of the most ridiculous ideas I've ever heard. Just about everywhere on the web today, people are ridiculing it. Warwick needs to look at ways of getting funding for up and coming drivers, but he also needs to be judicial about how that's done.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

I doubt that much UK government money would ever go into funding drivers, believing that there is plenty of money within the motor and motor racing industry to fund drivers if they wanted to.

Marussia can't pay Glock to drive because they're short of money to even stand a chance of survival in F1. They don't have a manufacturer behind them to fund drivers.

Where does the problem actually lie?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Marussia can't pay Glock to drive because they're short of money to even stand a chance of survival in F1. They don't have a manufacturer behind them to fund drivers.

Where does the problem actually lie?

Marussia's problem originates in the shelving of the 'budget cap'.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Marussia's problem originates in the shelving of the 'budget cap'.

As they did for many other teams, if only they would but dare admit that. Now we have teams like Sauber calling for a budget cap.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...or-budget-cap/

Mercedes too!

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/m...092544561.html

We need to get back to why Derek Warwick feels that the government should be funding young drivers, and sharpish!

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Marbot

......Where does the problem actually lie?

Ecclestone.


and who is capable of a solution?

Ecclestone...

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Ecclestone.


and who is capable of a solution?

Ecclestone...

I don't think that Ecclestone is solely responsible for the lack of driver funding at all levels in motorsport. He just doesn't have that much influence. Car manufacturers have far more influence over that than Ecclestone does, and it's not something that is just happening in FIA sanctioned series, either. If you look at the series run in the US, they have just the same sorts of problems there.

Edit: We should also point out that it's not Ecclestone who is actually holding all of the cards with regard to the ownership of F1. That's CVC, and they will no doubt be all too ready to point out that they are not a charity.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I can see where Warwick is coming from in this to some extent. the problem is where and how.

I see no harm in a teenage Karting champion going to Sport Scotland/ Sport England/ Sport Wales /Sport Northern Ireland and saying ... Look I've (my family and friends) have funded me to to a championship, I'm looking to step up a class, but that doesn't just require new Kit, but I need to improve my own fitness etc. Can I have some money towards my current Gym membership... that in turn will free my own money up for an engine upgrade/ extra set of tyres for the upcoming season.

The Sports Authority need not give direct cash that could be used for anything, but hand the karter a local authority gym membership card valid for a year.

Finding some way to implement something similar for a clubbie racer, who is happy driving in their class year in year out is the difficult part.

Government or lottery funding for Silverstone is a different question and set of arguments altogether.

[Flavio Galtieri]

I've got an idea, and I bet this would get government approval...

Before petitioning Parliament for a handout of taxpayer funds from the public purse for his new driver scheme why doesn't Warwick first pass the hat around his own members who have benefited so much from tax-except status by living abroad over the years?

Let's think. There's currently Hamilton, Button, DiResta, Coulthard, along with JYS and Mansell who might chip in along with former President Damon who escaped to Ireland for a few years and of course Warwick himself who seemed to enjoy the air in the Channel Islands once the paycheques started rolling in....

Seriously, I've never heard such a crass idea from the BRDC in my life. Warwick is delusional and is harming the very image of the sport by opening his mouth in this way.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by davyboy

The reason Warwick shouldn't have done it is simply because he is undermining his role and potentially bringing the BRDC into disrepute. This will never happen and it's one of the most ridiculous ideas I've ever heard. Just about everywhere on the web today, people are ridiculing it. Warwick needs to look at ways of getting funding for up and coming drivers, but he also needs to be judicial about how that's done.

If Warwick didn't explore the possibility of public funding as one of a myriad of options then he should be sacked. He should be exploring all legal opportunities to advance the interests of the organisation he's been charged to lead. Internet opprobrium is nothing new, is usually ill-informed and knee-jerk. He has an organisation to protect and advance, his remit isn't to soothe the hurt feelings of the internet community who, by in large, do not have to shoulder the responsibility of running such an organisation. The charge that he has not embraced the commercial world may indeed have merit. But the idea that he gallantly abstains from seeking public monies does not have merit. Even if he pursued such an approach he wouldn't get any credit from the grumpy online community anyway!

There's imaginative solutions that are possible off the top of my head. There could be a commitment to match commercial funds with public funds 50:50 or some other ratio to a couple of select drivers. You could rope a driver into road safety campaigns and if he hits the Hambo big league; he pays the money back.

Maybe policy makers should refuse even that, I don't know. What I do know is that Warwick is fully justified in rolling out his stall for public money and if he refused even to look at that option he would be significantly remiss in his job.

[Paradise City]

As for Eccelstone, I remember his disrespect towards the marshals. I doubt he gives a jot for young drivers starting out. I don't think Warwick and him get on either.

[Greem]

No funding, to my knowledge, is offered to athletes who are not developing (the "happy driving in their class year in year out" scenario).

Public funding is offered to those who are developing towards an "elite" level - national or international - based on strict criteria being met. There were plenty of sob stories prior to (and after) the Olympics of sports men and women losing their funding because they, or their sport as a whole, hadn't met the previously agreed standard.

So... how do young drivers (in karts, or their first couple of seasons) get identified as possibly having what it takes? That's what the MSA are doing already with their Academy drivers, what the RSF are doing, and what the BRDC themselves are doing with the Rising Stars programme. None of those programmes are rolling in cash, but they open doors to the wider motorsport world via sponsor opportunities and wider exposure.

Perhaps if DW had worded his statement differently opinions would be different? "We'd like some help with the BRDC Rising Stars programme to ensure we give junior drivers the best progression to international level that we can" is somewhat more positive, isn't it?

Interestingly, one thing the motorsport world in the UK always brings up is the number of jobs created and amount of money brought in by the UK being the centre of the world's motorsport industry. That being so, any cap-in-hand approach at a national level is almost certain to be pilloried (rightly or wrongly) because the perception is that motorsport looks after itself, money is swilling around etc etc.

Only it isn't. We might be very good at engineering cars, producing simulators and so on but the money involved in those fields stays in those fields.

Wording aside, and Silverstone itself aside, I think DW is simply putting into words what a lot of young drivers and their families are feeling right now. It will be interesting to see how many of them stop driving and take up competitive cycling in the next 12 months, won't it?

[chillibowl]

its interesting that in this thread its ridiculous that gov't would spend public money on talented kids in motor sport and in the Glock thread its ridiculous that talented drivers are getting replaced by drivers who have private money.

obviously its not this simple but private money is used to achieve different goals to that of public money being spent. private capital is used to derive satisfaction for its owners (rich guy wants his kid to be in F1) where as public money would be spent on trying to find the best kid to give a chance too. which approach do you think will yield the more competitive and/or interesting field?

personally i dont think gov't subsidizing/giving tax breaks too/ funding etc sports at every level is ridiculous at all. if anything they should be spending more money on it not less.

[Flavio Galtieri]

I don't think many people would disagree with the idea that motor sport in general has a real problem with identifying and nurturing talent from other than seriously wealthy backgrounds. That alone is why it is considered a sport for the rich.

It is simply not within the realms of possibility for a talented child from a working class family to ascend the ladder to F1. Buying a bike is probably a far better option.

Warwick's plan however is naive. It is born of a person who doesn't understand politics, probably hasn't noticed the country is in a recession, and has no idea how his statement looks to the outside world who he wishes to fund his ideas.

Given that politicians start worrying about their re-election the moment they take office, and giving public money to a club whose most famous members live in tax-exile may not help them reach that goal, I would say this has a zero chance of gaining any support at all.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Greem

No funding, to my knowledge, is offered to athletes who are not developing (the "happy driving in their class year in year out" scenario).

Public funding is offered to those who are developing towards an "elite" level - national or international - based on strict criteria being met. There were plenty of sob stories prior to (and after) the Olympics of sports men and women losing their funding because they, or their sport as a whole, hadn't met the previously agreed standard.

So... how do young drivers (in karts, or their first couple of seasons) get identified as possibly having what it takes? That's what the MSA are doing already with their Academy drivers, what the RSF are doing, and what the BRDC themselves are doing with the Rising Stars programme. None of those programmes are rolling in cash, but they open doors to the wider motorsport world via sponsor opportunities and wider exposure.

Perhaps if DW had worded his statement differently opinions would be different? "We'd like some help with the BRDC Rising Stars programme to ensure we give junior drivers the best progression to international level that we can" is somewhat more positive, isn't it?

Interestingly, one thing the motorsport world in the UK always brings up is the number of jobs created and amount of money brought in by the UK being the centre of the world's motorsport industry. That being so, any cap-in-hand approach at a national level is almost certain to be pilloried (rightly or wrongly) because the perception is that motorsport looks after itself, money is swilling around etc etc.

Only it isn't. We might be very good at engineering cars, producing simulators and so on but the money involved in those fields stays in those fields.

Wording aside, and Silverstone itself aside, I think DW is simply putting into words what a lot of young drivers and their families are feeling right now. It will be interesting to see how many of them stop driving and take up competitive cycling in the next 12 months, won't it?

Is motor racing an industry or a sport ? What you're discussing here is primarily industrial. This does provide wealth and jobs here in the UK, but it's not in any way reliant on UK nationals being drivers. In fact one could argue that if foreign drivers bring foreign sponsorship to UK teams, it's financially better for the country than if indigenous drivers had indigenous companies fund them.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Is motor racing an industry or a sport ?

It depends...

• If you're competing at a level below international level, you probably view it as sport.
• If you're getting paid handsomely, then it's a sport but it's also an industry (cf. top-line football players, the NFL, basketball in the States and so on)
• If you run an engineering company turning out high-tech widgets for F1, it's an industry
• If you're a spectator, then it's a sport (and primarily a cold and wet one in the UK)

Tricky.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Greem

It depends...

• If you're competing at a level below international level, you probably view it as sport.
• If you're getting paid handsomely, then it's a sport but it's also an industry (cf. top-line football players, the NFL, basketball in the States and so on)
• If you run an engineering company turning out high-tech widgets for F1, it's an industry
• If you're a spectator, then it's a sport (and primarily a cold and wet one in the UK)

Tricky.

Perception is that is less of a 'sport' than athletics, swimming, cricket, etc - possibly much of this is that it is seen as an elite, selfish sport by comparison with the added element that outside of the core followers than man in street doesn't know if it's the driver or the car that is the key factor.

There is also no wider national 'team' per se - athletes win individual medals for themselves but are seen to win for, and represent, their country. Of course A1GP tried the national team route for their format which didn't galvanise much support - but that is a different story.

[Paradise City]

The GP track is the industry, the tourism industry

The drivers are the sport.

The engineering is the industry.

IMO.

---

Bar a few broad details I don't think Warwick has outlined his plan. I'd try to set the agenda with the media. Get a coherent public-private proposal drawn up and upload it as a pdf for all to see. Do a press conference for the trade media and the broader media.

I don't think Warwick has interacted with the press very well and the article is sleepily written, pit-pass typical. He comes across as moaning and whining. He should be proactive and present a positive case as to why he merits public money.