Sebring Winter Test 2011

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by cmk

Winning championships is anything but boring.

Then why did corvette racing switch to GT2.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

A member of the ALMS fan forum posted that as an estimated time based on observations. I think that we'll see the LMP1 diesels for sure running 1:46s, maybe even 1:45s. I don't think we'll see 2009 times, though.

Considering the peugeot 908 did a 1:42 at this track. i think you guys are referencing the wrong laptime to add your 3 secs or however slower u think they will be. Don't reference 1:45's.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Then why did corvette racing switch to GT2.

Are you seriously comparing Corvette Racing racing against literally no competition to Flying Lizard's experience in the ALMS GT2 over the last few seasons?

[pdxracefan]

Originally Posted by TWK

I've hear Jorge called a lot of things over the years, but "passive" was never one of them.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by cmk

Are you seriously comparing Corvette Racing racing against literally no competition to Flying Lizard's experience in the ALMS GT2 over the last few seasons?

I'm interested in knowing why you think this matter is funny.
And to respond to your point if your winning and not having fun what's the point. Trust me people race to have fun thats why team owners race. I'll assume you watch the series. then you know that the flying lizard boys are usually the least agressive car in the field. They usually never go for pole.

[pdxracefan]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Then why did corvette racing switch to GT2.

Uh, maybe because the class died?

[arakis]

did I miss something, I thought RLR won the ALMS championship, I think if the Lizards want to win this season they will have to be more agressive, couse bothe Corvette and BMW proved to be much better at their game at second half of the season last year, and this year they will be even better

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by arakis

did I miss something, I thought RLR won the ALMS championship, I think if the Lizards want to win this season they will have to be more agressive, couse bothe Corvette and BMW proved to be much better at their game at second half of the season last year, and this year they will be even better

No you did not. You are exactly right.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by arakis

me obviusly, but i understand that if they had money problems, that a trip to le mans + runing the car for 24h can prove costley when you don't have the cash

I am aslo disapointed at their testing here at sebring, they run the lowest nuber of laps then any other major player

I'm pretty sure it was not money problems. Risi and his team could get money from ferrari if he wanted. I', sure their were lots of companies who wouldve sponsored risi. they probably did not want to go.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Just because they won the last two years doesn't give them reason to deviate from their game plan. They've found something that works, why not stick to it or build from there? I believe they have zero reason to try something new as opposed to, say Jaguar. They need to try something new.

They didn't win the championship last year.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by arakis
did I miss something, I thought RLR won the ALMS championship, I think if the Lizards want to win this season they will have to be more agressive, couse bothe Corvette and BMW proved to be much better at their game at second half of the season last year, and this year they will be even better

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

No you did not. You are exactly right.

Since Jorge and Pat did not lose the ALMS's manufacturer and team championship because they were "soft," or "not aggressive enough," they can't win it by cranking up some mythical behavior. They won the driver's championship, so what's the beef? The real reason that Porsche lost those other two championships is because the ONLY competitive car they fielded in the series was the one driven by those two drivers - undoubtedly the best pairing in the ALMS - perhaps in ALMS history - based on the multi-season record. The others - BMW, Ferrari and Corvette - each fielded at least two cars that could achieve a podium finish. Porsche did not.

If the Lizards want to win the Team Championship? That's not hard....get the slow-ass owner out of the car. Unless and until they do that, nothing else they do will win that championship again in this ALMS field.

Anyone who believes that Jorge Bergmeister is not an "aggressive" driver (I don't mean that to be perjorative), needs glasses, or in some way needs to follow ALMS GT racing much more closely.

[arakis]

NVM

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by TWK

Since Jorge and Pat did not lose the ALMS's manufacturer and team championship because they were "soft," or "not aggressive enough," they can't win it by cranking up some mythical behavior. They won the driver's championship, so what's the beef? The real reason that Porsche lost those other two championships is because the ONLY competitive car they fielded in the series was the one driven by those two drivers - undoubtedly the best pairing in the ALMS - perhaps in ALMS history - based on the multi-season record. The others - BMW, Ferrari and Corvette - each fielded at least two cars that could achieve a podium finish. Porsche did not.

If the Lizards want to win the Team Championship? That's not hard....get the slow-ass owner out of the car. Unless and until they do that, nothing else they do will win that championship again in this ALMS field.

Anyone who believes that Jorge Bergmeister is not an "aggressive" driver (I don't mean that to be perjorative), needs glasses, or in some way needs to follow ALMS GT racing much more closely.

Well if you pay attention more closely you'll realize that he's not the type to make a dive bomb move down the inside on the inside and complete the pass. You look at sebring 07 i believe and tell me whos more aggressive. Sure he can be aggressive but compared to the rest of the field out their he seems pretty passive.
Jaime Melo= Super Aggressive
Dirk Mueller=aggressive
the entire corvette team= aggressive

So joerg is not looking to aggressive anymore now dont ya think

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by TWK

Since Jorge and Pat did not lose the ALMS's manufacturer and team championship because they were "soft," or "not aggressive enough," they can't win it by cranking up some mythical behavior. They won the driver's championship, so what's the beef? The real reason that Porsche lost those other two championships is because the ONLY competitive car they fielded in the series was the one driven by those two drivers - undoubtedly the best pairing in the ALMS - perhaps in ALMS history - based on the multi-season record. The others - BMW, Ferrari and Corvette - each fielded at least two cars that could achieve a podium finish. Porsche did not.

If the Lizards want to win the Team Championship? That's not hard....get the slow-ass owner out of the car. Unless and until they do that, nothing else they do will win that championship again in this ALMS field.

Anyone who believes that Jorge Bergmeister is not an "aggressive" driver (I don't mean that to be perjorative), needs glasses, or in some way needs to follow ALMS GT racing much more closely.

Also best driver pairing??

Luhr-Maasen
Dumas-Bernhard
Werner-Luhr

Theres a lot of driver pairings that are just as good.

[Purist]

Ahem, guys? For those of you arguing about the absolute pace of the new diesel LMP1s, I think you're missing a major point. Unless plans have changed drastically, the R18 and new 908 will NOT be taking part in the Sebring 12 Hours, which makes that who debate rather moot. Don't you think?

Also, power may not make such a difference now in time trial settings, but it sure as hell does when you're actually racing. Being able to out-pull your opponent is definitely the easiest and most effective way to make a pass, or the keep ahead, in an actual race. I mean, if you can pull the guy on the straight, it makes blocking a hell of a lot harder (since he can just stay on the normal line and go by on the outside). And what good is better braking or cornering if the guy in front pulls too much distance on you in the straight to have any chance of outbraking him at the next corner?

Gilles Villeneuve at Jarama in 1981, anyone?

As for driver duos, haven't Jorg and Patrick been together for longer than any of those other three mentioned above? i don't really count the Audi pairings, since it's easy to look good when you have what's heavily regarded as the best car in the class under you. I'd put David Brabham and Jan Magnussen ahead of any of them in terms of what they can get out of a race and a car, except perhaps for TK and McNish. Now, if only Panoz had put Mags in the same car as Brabs back at Adelaide.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by Purist

Ahem, guys? For those of you arguing about the absolute pace of the new diesel LMP1s, I think you're missing a major point. Unless plans have changed drastically, the R18 and new 908 will NOT be taking part in the Sebring 12 Hours, which makes that who debate rather moot. Don't you think?
.

Actually the peugeot 908 will be at sebring and the Roeca 908HDI FAP. so will the new aston martin. Moot i think not!!

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by Purist

Also, power may not make such a difference now in time trial settings, but it sure as hell does when you're actually racing. Being able to out-pull your opponent is definitely the easiest and most effective way to make a pass, or the keep ahead, in an actual race. I mean, if you can pull the guy on the straight, it makes blocking a hell of a lot harder (since he can just stay on the normal line and go by on the outside). And what good is better braking or cornering if the guy in front pulls too much distance on you in the straight to have any chance of outbraking him at the next corner?

what are you talking about??? what does one car being able to outdrag another have to do with setting a 1:45 around sebring ??? Why are you talking about race pace or whatever your talking about???

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by Purist

As for driver duos, haven't Jorg and Patrick been together for longer than any of those other three mentioned above? i don't really count the Audi pairings, since it's easy to look good when you have what's heavily regarded as the best car in the class under you. I'd put David Brabham and Jan Magnussen ahead of any of them in terms of what they can get out of a race and a car, except perhaps for TK and McNish. Now, if only Panoz had put Mags in the same car as Brabs back at Adelaide.

Well no Timo Bernhard and Romain Dumas are the longest active driver pairing. They had been racing in 911's before joerg and pat go to even be factory drivers.

Hasn't the porsche been dominating the class the past years so that certainly make jeorg and Patrick look good. I mean i'm only using your logic here. If you notice the championship did not come easy this year so using your logic theyre not that good either(again using your logic). In fact they only got the drivers crown and nothing else. (I still think they are good not using your logic)

I feel like your someone who is stuck in the past and has yet to accept that the latest crop of drivers is better. You probably don't like Sebastien Vettel then.
Yeah David Brabham is a great driver but their are other great drivers too ya know. you are discrediting a heck of a lot of drivers here. what about Bill auberlen and joey Hand pairing. that one was probably even longer than long and bergmeister. Think about what Bill Auberlen has done for BMW. How bout the guys at corvette.

[TWK]

My view before Mosport September, 2010:

The Class of the (GT) Class

Every race is a GT event. Any of four makes might win. Any of four teams. Any of seven entries. All unpredictable, all with an even chance – almost.

Almost, because one entry has a better chance – a chance of their own making – than all the rest. That’s Jörg Bergmeister and Pat Long, simply the best GT pairing, perhaps the best sportscar pairing in any class or series in the world.

Is it because they drive a Porsche? We don’t think so. In fact, recently it may be in spite of driving a Porsche. In this hypercompetitive season, Jörg and Pat have won four of eight races and with one to go have a 22 point lead.

Jörg has been the “big brother” of this pair, literally towering over his miniature partner. He debuted in the American Le Mans Series as a Porsche works driver in 2002, partnering with Timo Bernhard that year and in the following two, taking a fifth in the series driver’s championship, then a second in 2003 and 3rd in the driver’s championship in 2004.

The following year, 2005, was his first with Pat, and it was a breakout. They were immediately successful together, winning the GT driver’s championship by 34 points on 4 wins in 10 races.

Evidently Porsche wasn’t impressed, though, since Jörg’s Christmas gift from Stuttgart was a pink slip. He’d be on his own in 2006. He made the most of it, first landing a season drive with Krohn Racing, a new Daytona Prototype team in Grand Am, then a job driving a Porsche for Dale White at Petersen White Lightning Racing. To partner Jörg, Dale had Porsche send him a factory driver – Pat Long. Dale’s never been one to miss the obvious. Jörg won the Daytona Prototype driver’s championship, then added the American Le Mans Series GT2 championship to it (Pat was third), winning two major sportscar championships in the same year. Making the year even more memorable, he married Danielle, and the new parents welcomed Lucy Anna-Maria. After all that, Porsche re-hired Bergmeister for the 2007 season.

2007 was the season that Risi Competizione’s Melo and Salo won GT2. Jörg was back with Porsche but not with Pat Long, who was doing a mix of GT and prototype duty for Stuttgart. Bergmeister paired with Johannes van Overbeek, and captured the runner-up spot to the Ferrari pair, 32 points adrift. 2008 was a Porsche 1, 2, 3 sweep by Porsche entries, with Jörg once again on top, this time with Wolf Henzler sharing the driving duties and the trophy.

Jörg and Pat were back together for 2009 and won going away, six race wins and a 44 point margin over Ferrari’s Mela and Kaffer. Now they are about to deliver another championship, Bergmeister’s fifth ALMS GT/GT2 title and their third together. For Bergmeister and Long, the record speaks for itself.

[arakis]

boy do you love qouting yourself, your ego is huge dude!

[Purist]

The Porsche 911 has consistently had decent benchmark cars to measure it against, whether it was the PTG M3s, the Panoz GTLM (for a short time), or the F360/F430, which proved capable of winning back in 2003. The Audi R8, at least, really didn't have that. And the only benchmark car you can use against the Audi R10, R15, or R18 is the Peugeot 908.

Bill and Joey have moved around so bloody much in the last number of years that I haven't really had good tabs on them since PTG dropped their old M3s.

Actually, my dream F1 title fight would be Vettel, Kubica, and Rosberg. Hulkenberg is alright too, but he kind of drove me nuts running away with the second season of A1GP; I think I was rooting for Team New Zealand in that season.

However, I still rate Fangio as the best F1 driver ever, with Clark, Ascari, and Moss just a small step down from him. I'm not sure about Senna; sometimes he seems great, and other races, he just seemed to drive like and jerk, and I can't respect that sort of thing from a driver. That's also a big part of why I never was a fan of Michael Schumacher; he drove like a, well, you pick the explative. The other part was just that I usually don't care for dominance. The only drivers I really liked to see dominate were Dale Sr. and Al Unser Jr. The only team I like to see dominate is Penske, and the only manufacturer I care to see dominate is Porsche. Don't ask me why, I can't explain it. I just know it is so.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by arakis

boy do you love qouting yourself, your ego is huge dude!

true lol

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by arakis

boy do you love qouting yourself, your ego is huge dude!

Why is that an issue The MAN IS RIGHT.. Live with it, you don't have to like it but its the truth...

[dj4monie]

Audi Racer makes no sense, talking about aggressive drivers, I guess he doesn't know how AJ Foyt is or even Mario Andretti who's torn up a car or three in his time.

In terms of points racing Jorg and Long just don't BEAT themselves. When they don't have the fastest car they aim for the top podium position, period. That's how you win championships and that's anything BUT boring.

How many times has Melo thrown a race away being overtly aggressive? Many but its also won him alot of races hasn't it? - Inside "move" at Mid-Ohio, more like forcing the BMW's out of the way but he did it and won.

They had the Laguna Seca race won but kept playing bumper cars with the competition and that ruined the nose of the F430 and they had to make an extra stop to remove it and that removed frontal downforce, there is a downside to being overly aggressive, but that's why we like GT isn't it?

Its not a dog fight, its a f'in war. I don't think a Sprint Cup driver would last a season without getting fined or DQ'ed for over-aggressive driving because they don't know where the limit is. IMSA rules with a iron fist and you know where the line is...

But the racing is fan f**king static...

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Also best driver pairing??

Luhr-Maasen
Dumas-Bernhard
Werner-Luhr

Theres a lot of driver pairings that are just as good.

Pure fastest paring in GT - Melo/Bruni