Excitement at all-time low?

[Purist]

CCWS was on Spike in 2004, but that's a separate issue.

The last Indy 500, tape-delayed telecast in primetime was in 1987 or so. From then on, the Indy 500 was shown LIVE on ABC during the day. Also, AFAIK, that was the last time CART, CCWS, or IRL was shown on network in primetime. My point being, that change happened WELL before the split, or the change in ownership that led CART to become CCWS.

That being the case, there isn't a direct connection to be made; CART had no primetime races from 1988-95 anyway, so there weren't any primetime broadcasts in that period of time.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Purist

CCWS was on Spike in 2004, but that's a separate issue.

The last Indy 500, tape-delayed telecast in primetime was in 1987 or so. From then on, the Indy 500 was shown LIVE on ABC during the day. Also, AFAIK, that was the last time CART, CCWS, or IRL was shown on network in primetime. My point being, that change happened WELL before the split, or the change in ownership that led CART to become CCWS.

That being the case, there isn't a direct connection to be made; CART had no primetime races from 1988-95 anyway, so there weren't any primetime broadcasts in that period of time.

What about post split, because it was particulrly in the late '90s I would watch CART on Eurosport?

[joeb]

Maybe I'm making something out of nothing here, but I do think it is telling that in the middle of the season there is such a lack of pertinent discussion that we have a thread started to talk about our favorite drives of all time.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by joeb

Maybe I'm making something out of nothing here, but I do think it is telling that in the middle of the season there is such a lack of pertinent discussion that we have a thread started to talk about our favorite drives of all time.

Hey, there's been lots of exciting talk early in the season. Like umm umm Hydroxycut becoming a sponsor for KV Racing after Geico dumped them and the series. But who's heard of Geico, Hydroxycut is a household time and Gieco are idiots for dumping the 4th highest rated auto racing series in North America.

Or of course, generic drivers getting a one-off at Indy for yet another year of the fortnight of May and no bumping. Woo hoo.

[Purist]

BJS, the closest to what you seem to be thinking was probably the 2003 Cleveland Grand Prix, which was run in the evening, and shown on CBS the following afternoon.

Hopefully the Texas broadcast does well. Saturday night certainly can work for sports; the two semi-finals of the "Final Four" were held last Saturday night. (I even went to a watch party, for obvious reasons, given where I'm from and currently reside.)

P.S. There are ALWAYS side threads going on during the season, for any series. That in and of itself isn't a concern.

[Paradise City]

It's hardly the middle of the season and this forum is more or less as busy as the NASCAR forum and they have more cars/races/drivers. I think the unfortunate thread title here is giving people morbid thoughts.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

It's hardly the middle of the season and this forum is more or less as busy as the NASCAR forum and they have more cars/races/drivers. I think the unfortunate thread title here is giving people morbid thoughts.

Outside of Sports cars this just isn't an American motorsports forum.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by joeb

Maybe I'm making something out of nothing here, but I do think it is telling that in the middle of the season there is such a lack of pertinent discussion that we have a thread started to talk about our favorite drives of all time.

Middle of the season? We've only had two races. Why not have a thread about favorite drivers, they do that sort of thing periodically on the F1 section of 10-Tenths.

We could even have a thread about the ugliest Indycars but I think we all know which car would come up trumps.

[Purist]

Oh, you mean the V-tail special from the '70s?

[David A Scott]

Some of the reasons why Indycar isn't gathering interest.

- The cars are eye-searingly ugly. I watched a few laps of St Pete and changed the channel to watch Pawn Stars instead.

- The cars are spec. Spec racing is for the ladder series and the SCCA.

- The cars are slow. Indycars need horsepower and should be difficult to drive. Close racing is for NASCAR fans. I want to see a car on the edge.

My reasons for not following Indycar. In addition to above.

- The Hulman/George clan. What was wrong with the state of Indycar back in the mid 90's? Nothing.

- The current crop of drivers are as exciting as a slice of white bread. With the exception of Franchitti and Dixon I don't think that many of them could handle a mid 90's CART machine.

Tony George ruined what was once the most exciting form of motor racing all because they wouldn't let him be king. Looking at his performance since the formation of the irl the CART board made the right decision.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Purist

Oh, you mean the V-tail special from the '70s?

You got a pic of it?

[Purist]

BJS, the 1972 Parnelli VPJ-1 "Viceroy Special".
http://www.nofenders.net/2013/03/ims...012-visit.html
(It's the car with dihedrals.)

David, on the road courses, the DW12 isn't slow. The CART pole record at Mid Ohio is a 1:05.347; last year's pole was a 1:05.647.

I'll go with you on most of the rest. I would say though, that the DW12 would be easier to take if it was just one option among several, and therefore, the field was not entirely made up of them.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Purist

I'll go with you on most of the rest. I would say though, that the DW12 would be easier to take if it was just one option among several, and therefore, the field was not entirely made up of them.

Yes, if the cars looked good but was still just a single-chassis formula it would look like a junior make formula.

This series needs to be a fertile multi-chassis formula if it wants to impress itself as a premier series. It's not just my wants talking here I really do think it would do the series the world of good if they pushed for that.

It would be a painful investment initially but it would reap good returns.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by David A Scott

Some of the reasons why Indycar isn't gathering interest.

- The cars are eye-searingly ugly. I watched a few laps of St Pete and changed the channel to watch Pawn Stars instead.

- The cars are spec. Spec racing is for the ladder series and the SCCA.

- The cars are slow. Indycars need horsepower and should be difficult to drive. Close racing is for NASCAR fans. I want to see a car on the edge.

My reasons for not following Indycar. In addition to above.

- The Hulman/George clan. What was wrong with the state of Indycar back in the mid 90's? Nothing.

- The current crop of drivers are as exciting as a slice of white bread. With the exception of Franchitti and Dixon I don't think that many of them could handle a mid 90's CART machine.

Tony George ruined what was once the most exciting form of motor racing all because they wouldn't let him be king. Looking at his performance since the formation of the irl the CART board made the right decision.

Welcome David. I would agree with most of what you have said except I feel the talent level is quite high, and in spite of all the issues above, the racing continues to be captivating. Miles allegedly wants to bring innovation back, but now the close racing excuse is being used to try to keep it spec. We all miss the CART days...

[FordCosworthPanoz]

People need to stop pretending Miles cares about what's going on track. Business restructure is his thing, and he'll be cutting, cutting, cutting and taking, taking, taking. Taxpayer money to IMS while his company demolishes large sections of the North and Northeast Vista with plans to remove G stands.

The guy is head of Hulman Company, not the Indycar Series, and looking at his background and his political/economic beliefs his reforms will be interesting to say the least.

[Juarez Jed]

How about the Indycars running about 10 seconds a lap quicker than the Nascars at Pocono on Wednesday, that should create some excitement for the July race

[David A Scott]

Originally Posted by Juarez Jed

How about the Indycars running about 10 seconds a lap quicker than the Nascars at Pocono on Wednesday, that should create some excitement for the July race

Didn't help at Fontana, Michigan, New Hampshire, Las Vegas, Pheonix....

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

People need to stop pretending Miles cares about what's going on track. Business restructure is his thing, and he'll be cutting, cutting, cutting and taking, taking, taking. Taxpayer money to IMS while his company demolishes large sections of the North and Northeast Vista with plans to remove G stands.

Not sure who needs to stop pretending

[Peat]

Originally Posted by David A Scott

- The cars are slow. Indycars need horsepower and should be difficult to drive. Close racing is for NASCAR fans. I want to see a car on the edge.

I think the DW12 is pretty difficult to master. Perhaps not in a good way though. You have to be able to live with awful understeer.

That said, the on-boards from St.Pete were pretty eye-opening. Watch them and try and tell me that they are too easy to drive.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Juarez Jed

How about the Indycars running about 10 seconds a lap quicker than the Nascars at Pocono on Wednesday, that should create some excitement for the July race

Does that help at Texas, or of course the other tracks they've raced at much faster and get hardly anybody to show up? Las Vegas 2011 they were running significantly faster than NASCAR, yet nobody showed up and more people showed up for the NASCAR Truck series standalone race on that weekend the following year.

The good thing about Pocono is it's relatively small capacity of 76,812, and due to angles and distance from the track every crowd looks good there even for series like ARCA, even if it isn't. And more importantly, it's really in a market that Indycar hasn't flooded, and is choc a bloc full of race fans.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by David A Scott

Some of the reasons why Indycar isn't gathering interest.

- The cars are eye-searingly ugly. I watched a few laps of St Pete and changed the channel to watch Pawn Stars instead.

- The cars are spec. Spec racing is for the ladder series and the SCCA.

- The cars are slow. Indycars need horsepower and should be difficult to drive. Close racing is for NASCAR fans. I want to see a car on the edge.

My reasons for not following Indycar. In addition to above.

- The Hulman/George clan. What was wrong with the state of Indycar back in the mid 90's? Nothing.

- The current crop of drivers are as exciting as a slice of white bread. With the exception of Franchitti and Dixon I don't think that many of them could handle a mid 90's CART machine.

Tony George ruined what was once the most exciting form of motor racing all because they wouldn't let him be king. Looking at his performance since the formation of the irl the CART board made the right decision.

Welcome to the forum David.

I would definitely include, Castroneves, and TK in your list of drivers who could handle a mid '90s CART machine, as well as Justin Wilson and Bordais.

Totally agree with you about Tony George.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Purist

BJS, the 1972 Parnelli VPJ-1 "Viceroy Special".
http://www.nofenders.net/2013/03/ims...012-visit.html
(It's the car with dihedrals.)

Now I remember it. It certainly was a radical looking machine. Thanks for the link.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Yes, if the cars looked good but was still just a single-chassis formula it would look like a junior make formula.

This series needs to be a fertile multi-chassis formula if it wants to impress itself as a premier series. It's not just my wants talking here I really do think it would do the series the world of good if they pushed for that.

It would be a painful investment initially but it would reap good returns.

Even F5000 was multi-chassis, with Lola eventually becoming the dominant constructor.