Excitement at all-time low?

[Xpunk75]

It seems to me that this has to be the lowest enthusiasm I have seen for this series since its existence. When I come on here in the middle of the day and I only see 1 person viewing this forum we can at least surmise that interest had dwindled to a new low for 10 Tenths members.

It sounds crazy but I believe when Champ Car was still in existence more people seemed to care on both sides because there was a foolish ideological racing war they were fighting. Since the buyout and the unification I see less and less people on forums all over the internet discussing the series and viewership has god down as well for the Indy Car Racing League or Indycar if you prefer.

Even with an ugly new car, and American champion, decent racing, and an exciting finish at Indy things seem worse than last year. Maybe the firing of Randy Bernard and the decision not to introduce aero kits has taken whatever steam the series had in its sales but things do not look good.
What are your thoughts small nitch group of racing fans lol

[marcostraz]

I think this is absurd...last season we saw one of the best seasons of the last 30 years, with a lot of battles, fantastic races often uncertain until the last laps...we saw one of the best Indy 500 maybe ever...we saw oval races without pack racing as the majority of fans wanted...we saw 90s oval races style...I have the same question: why we have to be always so pessimistic?

[Down F0rce]

We are enduring the longest off season in years, there isn't news every day either. It's only a few weeks until St Pete. I'm sure things will pick up then.

[Paradise City]

The politics/economics of this series is fairly crushing and listing off the drivers who have been sent packing because they can't strum up the necessary cash and so have to make way for those who do, well it's a hard slog discussing that. There's no two bits about it, this series is in a tough position and discussing the off-track antics only underlines that.

I'm sure things will pick up though when the racing starts.

[Peat]

The continual foot-shooting, the empty grandstands, (in the UK) the trials and tribulations of just trying to see the flippin races......

It all adds up and wears you down.

I'm going to the 500 this year, very much looking forward to it.

[Down F0rce]

This your first 500, Pete? My first was last year... bloody awesome experience!

[Peat]

Indeed. I combed the forum for Indy tips a while ago and remember reading a few of your posts. Very helpful.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Down F0rce

We are enduring the longest off season in years, there isn't news every day either. It's only a few weeks until St Pete. I'm sure things will pick up then.

I remember back in the CART years how busy it was in the off season with all of the chassis, driver, tire, engine, sponsor changes and there was always plenty of news.

Now there is almost nothing to report or talk about, except maybe who is leaving.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Xpunk75

It seems to me that this has to be the lowest enthusiasm I have seen for this series since its existence. When I come on here in the middle of the day and I only see 1 person viewing this forum we can at least surmise that interest had dwindled to a new low for 10 Tenths members.

It sounds crazy but I believe when Champ Car was still in existence more people seemed to care on both sides because there was a foolish ideological racing war they were fighting. Since the buyout and the unification I see less and less people on forums all over the internet discussing the series and viewership has god down as well for the Indy Car Racing League or Indycar if you prefer.

Even with an ugly new car, and American champion, decent racing, and an exciting finish at Indy things seem worse than last year. Maybe the firing of Randy Bernard and the decision not to introduce aero kits has taken whatever steam the series had in its sales but things do not look good.
What are your thoughts small nitch group of racing fans lol

I've noticed over the years especially after 2010, the numbers tanked on all the forums. I think the Champcar/irl battle kept it interesting but after the disastrous new car, there is nothing going on except for the odd latest debacle and stupid decision.

What should be of most concern to the irl fans, is well where are they? A lot of the stalwarts who fought tooth and nail for the irl during the Great War hardly darken the door anymore.

I think the ship has sailed and this is dead series walking. Everyone has moved on and I don't think they'll be back.

The only way out is to sell to someone willing to invest and change things to make it more up to date and interesting. In this economy there are probably very few people out there that would have an interest in it. I know there were some people before but the family wants an outrageous sum for a dead horse of a series.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

but after the disastrous new car

What should be of most concern to the irl fans, is well where are they?

Disatrous new car? Apart from it being more expensive than planned it produced the best racing in ages. Your not an objective poster which loses impact with pretty much everything you post.

Also your last line should read - where are the open wheel fans. This isnt IRL vs Champcar anymore mate. Its Indycar and we are all one group of fans these days.

Thanks for your enlightening input though

[Peat]

I think what he is getting at is that is that during the split, each set of fans were passionate and wanted their championship to succeed which gave each one 'life', for a while.

The merge left all of us with one product that neither side seems to particually cares for as it it's not the thing they championed. It's not IRL, it's not champcar. It's a mish mash of both, seemingly only incorporating the worst of each!

The new car has produced some good racing, true. But it's too slow and butt-ugly (designed by committee, not for purpose) and getting it was a farce.

[W.A Trichlorostyrene]

Originally Posted by Xpunk75

It seems to me that this has to be the lowest enthusiasm I have seen for this series since its existence. When I come on here in the middle of the day and I only see 1 person viewing this forum we can at least surmise that interest had dwindled to a new low for 10 Tenths members.

Whoever is truly excited about the current series and in his right mind, would probably do his best to avoid this present section...

[Paradise City]

The car is a mixed bag at best. It's expensive and ugly but it can usually race. I don't think that's enough though.

I sometimes get resistance for saying this but the car does need to look the part if the series want to wrest itself from the doldrums. Life-rafts on wheels, granted that can race, give off a mixed impression, IMO.

I think there's good discussion on this section but it's a tough slog because the series is in a tough state. There's no escaping that. If you want just to unquestioningly cheerlead the series and dislike forthright analysis, then I don't recommend this section, no. For me telling the truth, is performing a real service in a way that being a 'yes' man isn't [ or being a 'no' man for that matter either.]

[D.R.T.]

Who is cheerleading the series?

Forthright analysis yes - but pushing the same agenda by adding nothing new since 2008? How is that useful?

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by Xpunk75

It seems to me that this has to be the lowest enthusiasm I have seen for this series since its existence. When I come on here in the middle of the day and I only see 1 person viewing this forum we can at least surmise that interest had dwindled to a new low for 10 Tenths members.

It sounds crazy but I believe when Champ Car was still in existence more people seemed to care on both sides because there was a foolish ideological racing war they were fighting. Since the buyout and the unification I see less and less people on forums all over the internet discussing the series and viewership has god down as well for the Indy Car Racing League or Indycar if you prefer.

Well, having experienced several strange dynamics on internet forums before, I can say my interest of talking about IndyCar on this board has gone down when the talk on it began being dominated by political matters (of IRL and IMS governance in this case). Mind you, I used to root for CART when that series was around, but mostly, I'm here for the discussion of the actual racing action. I don't see any reason to talk to concern trolls like the ones they breed over there at crapwagon. It's a shame they have started to dominate the discussion here, having effectively burned the place for all those who do not want to waste their time fighting their opinions. They are like spammers really, they just say the same thing which for people who don't know crapwagon, can be summarized to "get the Georges out of Georgetown". I guess I'm not the only one who is bored by this and who is put off by the emotional intensity with which they decorate their claims.
And I could not care less either, because I don't pay the racing action, sitting here in Europe, having watched it on youtube.

Basically, it's the cast of characters and their attitude which makes a forum a nice place. On other forums, I've often seen the tendency that people with rather radical views can easily scare away new registrants which otherwise would have brought something productive to the table, but then did not because they did not like the atmosphere. I'm sorry to say that's what I have witnessed happening to this board, too.

So your observation of low enthusiasm is not down to what happened in racing last year at all, but is rooted in a more general internet phenomenon: the people who like the sport having moved elsewhere to discuss it or read about it: me included. That's one internet phenomenon (online migration movement) answering another (concern trolling).

I liked this place a lot but not that much anymore since last winter. The racing action was indeed pretty good overall in 2012 and is no reason at all for me not starting new threads. Goodbye.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Who is cheerleading the series?

Forthright analysis yes - but pushing the same agenda by adding nothing new since 2008? How is that useful?

There's a been a whole string of news since 2008 and posters on here have analysed that news as that news has arisen. I don't worry about 'agendas'. My agenda is to tell the truth insofar as I can see it and I deal with posters remarks in that spirit and at face value.

In short, people's remarks either stand or fall on the substance of their remarks themselves and not whether they happen to be praiseworthy/critical.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Disatrous new car? Apart from it being more expensive than planned it produced the best racing in ages. Your not an objective poster which loses impact with pretty much everything you post.

Also your last line should read - where are the open wheel fans. This isnt IRL vs Champcar anymore mate. Its Indycar and we are all one group of fans these days.

Thanks for your enlightening input though

It's a car with a butt plug of lead in it's nose that was poorly engineered and has poor quality control. The parts and the cost of the car ended up being more than the teams were told. The car is ugly and not exciting to watch, not to mention there is a whole field of them.

Results matter and for all your exhortations, TV ratings fell again last year and the series struggles to hold onto venues.

One would think if this car was so successful and well received, tv and attendance would have jumped by 50%.

Your one group of fans is very small, enough to fit in one room. Even the inside the beltway crowd that supported the irl from the beginning have all vanished. I haven't seen any of them post here for ages and when I looked at trackforum last year, seems like many of the original fans and supporters have just given up.

I'd say outside the Nascar the only buzz I have seen is for Robby Gordon's new Stadium Trucks. Haven't seen any press coverage for the irl since rodeo randy got canned, other than little blurbs of nothing in the specialized press.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

There's a been a whole string of news since 2008 and posters on here have analysed that news as that news has arisen. I don't worry about 'agendas'. My agenda is to tell the truth insofar as I can see it and I deal with posters remarks in that spirit and at face value.

In short, people's remarks either stand or fall on the substance of their remarks themselves and not whether they happen to be praiseworthy/critical.

Exactly.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Yannick

Well, having experienced several strange dynamics on internet forums before, I can say my interest of talking about IndyCar on this board has gone down when the talk on it began being dominated by political matters (of IRL and IMS governance in this case). Mind you, I used to root for CART when that series was around, but mostly, I'm here for the discussion of the actual racing action. I don't see any reason to talk to concern trolls like the ones they breed over there at crapwagon. It's a shame they have started to dominate the discussion here, having effectively burned the place for all those who do not want to waste their time fighting their opinions. They are like spammers really, they just say the same thing which for people who don't know crapwagon, can be summarized to "get the Georges out of Georgetown". I guess I'm not the only one who is bored by this and who is put off by the emotional intensity with which they decorate their claims.
And I could not care less either, because I don't pay the racing action, sitting here in Europe, having watched it on youtube.

Basically, it's the cast of characters and their attitude which makes a forum a nice place. On other forums, I've often seen the tendency that people with rather radical views can easily scare away new registrants which otherwise would have brought something productive to the table, but then did not because they did not like the atmosphere. I'm sorry to say that's what I have witnessed happening to this board, too.

So your observation of low enthusiasm is not down to what happened in racing last year at all, but is rooted in a more general internet phenomenon: the people who like the sport having moved elsewhere to discuss it or read about it: me included. That's one internet phenomenon (online migration movement) answering another (concern trolling).

I liked this place a lot but not that much anymore since last winter. The racing action was indeed pretty good overall in 2012 and is no reason at all for me not starting new threads. Goodbye.

It's a shame you feel you have to leave. I personally don't think this part of the 10-Tenths has any resemblance to Crapwaggon. There will be people on this forum and any forum for that matter, who will, let's a say, be more outspoken and critical than others but I see that as a good thing, just as long as it doesn't become dominated and I don't see that happening.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

It's a car with a butt plug of lead in it's nose that was poorly engineered and has poor quality control. The parts and the cost of the car ended up being more than the teams were told. The car is ugly and not exciting to watch, not to mention there is a whole field of them.

Results matter and for all your exhortations, TV ratings fell again last year and the series struggles to hold onto venues.

One would think if this car was so successful and well received, tv and attendance would have jumped by 50%.

Your one group of fans is very small, enough to fit in one room. Even the inside the beltway crowd that supported the irl from the beginning have all vanished. I haven't seen any of them post here for ages and when I looked at trackforum last year, seems like many of the original fans and supporters have just given up.

I'd say outside the Nascar the only buzz I have seen is for Robby Gordon's new Stadium Trucks. Haven't seen any press coverage for the irl since rodeo randy got canned, other than little blurbs of nothing in the specialized press.

I have to agree. I was very disappointed when the new car was rolled out, I was hoping for something more in line with the CART era. From a design and esthetic point of view there's a lot to be desired but it did provide us with some excellent racing, which hadn't been seen for a long time but I put that down to the car being ground effect and therefore it will behave more like a CART era car, which was

I just wonder what the reaction of fans would have been and what the knock on effect of that would have been, regarding TV viewing figures and race track attendance, if the ICONIC Committee had gone for a car more in keeping with a car from the CART era?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It's a shame you feel you have to leave. I personally don't think this part of the 10-Tenths has any resemblance to Crapwaggon. There will be people on this forum and any forum for that matter, who will, let's a say, be more outspoken and critical than others but I see that as a good thing, just as long as it doesn't become dominated and I don't see that happening.

There is so little going on, that Crapwagon is quiet as well and I don't think I have posted there for months.

A lot of people want a one way of thinking with no dissension, but society has never progressed without ideas being discussed and challenged. DRT and a couple of others wants no one to be critical of the irl, yet that isn't the reality of the situation is it? Even the devout inside the 465 beltway fans have disappeared from this forum rather than still being here cranking out the PR and talking up their series. Results matter and if the irl was so super fabulous, there would be heaps to discuss but there is not.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I have to agree. I was very disappointed when the new car was rolled out, I was hoping for something more in line with the CART era. From a design and esthetic point of view there's a lot to be desired but it did provide us with some excellent racing, which hadn't been seen for a long time but I put that down to the car being ground effect and therefore it will behave more like a CART era car, which was

I just wonder what the reaction of fans would have been and what the knock on effect of that would have been, regarding TV viewing figures and race track attendance, if the ICONIC Committee had gone for a car more in keeping with a car from the CART era?

Remember all the designs submitted for that "committee" and how different they all were? The irl chose short term gain to keep a slice of the car and parts revenue and grab that phony baloney money from the taxpayers of Indiana for the land deal and dallara factory that would have 80 employees(last I checked there was still just a couple of people opening boxes and a few making coffee there) and to subsidize the cars for the local teams.

Instead of being so insular, they should have designed a new formula that would have allowed multiple constructors to compete, maybe even with different types of engines. You would have ended up with something much more exciting people might want to see and follow. Car companies and others would have also been more excited over something different they could demonstrate technology with.

Instead the teams have a car the teams can't stand that is basically an over priced indy lights car with 550 hp and the public has demonstrated no interest in. Because teams and their former subcontractors can't fabricate any of their parts and it's just a spec car, most teams layoff a lot of their team members now each October.

Now they are up a chicken wire boat up a creek deserted by their own hardcore fans, with teams not happy and fans not happy.

The only thing to do now is scrub it all clean and start over.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It's a shame you feel you have to leave. I personally don't think this part of the 10-Tenths has any resemblance to Crapwaggon. There will be people on this forum and any forum for that matter, who will, let's a say, be more outspoken and critical than others but I see that as a good thing, just as long as it doesn't become dominated and I don't see that happening.

Yannick is a fine thoughtful fellow but he has a tendency to announce his resignation from the forum multiple times over various months only to bounce back. And long may he continue to bounce back I say.

[IndyDonut]

I don't intend to "leave" or anything, but there is a bit of a low of excitement for IndyCar everywhere. Bad cars, bad schedule, bad ratings, bad finances, and now that Randy is gone, management bad enough to make the NHL look competent. What's the silver lining? The Indy 500? It's great, but it's one race. And there's also the issue that for those of us who don't bother getting cable, ABC is only carrying the damn oval races. If I wanted to see cars drive around in circles for a couple of hours I'd watch NASCAR, and I don't like NASCAR.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

There is so little going on, that Crapwagon is quiet as well and I don't think I have posted there for months.

A lot of people want a one way of thinking with no dissension, but society has never progressed without ideas being discussed and challenged. DRT and a couple of others wants no one to be critical of the irl, yet that isn't the reality of the situation is it? Even the devout inside the 465 beltway fans have disappeared from this forum rather than still being here cranking out the PR and talking up their series. Results matter and if the irl was so super fabulous, there would be heaps to discuss but there is not.

Unfortunately, what everyone has to accept is that AOWR is not what it was. It's fan base has dwindled and the result from that is lower race track attendance and lower and lower TV ratings and fewer sponsors. Excitement is at an all time low because AOWR isn't generating any excitement and in turn is at an all time low.

F1 continues to generate interest, especially this time of the year with the teams launching their new cars and then testing them. What's new in IndyCar this year that's generating that sort of interest? Nothing as far as I can see.