|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
14 Sep 2004, 04:43 (Ref:1095881) | #1 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 938
|
Bathurst Fuel Consumption
The Sandown circuit is exactly half the length of Bathurst, so I took the lap number of people’s first stop at Sandown and divided it by 2. This should give an approximate of how many laps each car will be able to do at Bathurst on one take of Optimax. I realise that there are a few variables (such as large number of Safety Cars at Sandown and the fact that going up a mountain should use more juice) but pre-Bathurst calculations are always fun……..
#9 Caltex – 23 #1 Pirtek – 24 #10 Orrcon – 27 #17 Shell – 28 #6 Caterpillar – 29 #29 Sirromet - 29 #51 K-Mart – 29 #12 OzEmail – 30 #34 Valvoline - 30 #50 PWR – 31 #31 SuperCheap - 32 #2 HRT – 32 This looks catastrophic as far as SBRs fuel consumption goes, but both SBR Falcons did 56 laps from their final stops to the flag (28 laps in Bathurst language) at Sandown. So where they not full on the grid, or was pitting earlier part of their strategy, because they definitely pitted before they had too? Anyway, to get away with four stops, you need 40 laps out of a tank so that seems quite out of reach for everyone. Five stops is 32 or 33 laps per tank, so #12, #34, #50, #31 and #2 are within striking distance of that mark, but it will be a real stretch. I am not convinced that K-Mart or the SBR cars pitted at Sandown with a low fuel light on, so I think they can go a little further at Bathurst. Even if one car can do it with no spash-‘n-go, I don’t think it will make much difference, because if everyone else pits on lap 15 or there abouts, then it will just put you at the front with the other 34 cars filed up right on your tail the next time a Safety Car comes out. I think everybody then will use 5 stops and a splash and dash. So using the SBR strategy from 1998 (and what most did last year) expect stops at around…….. Lap 15 (a top up or full tank, depending on what you started with) Lap 45 Lap 75 Lap 105 Lap 135 which will take them all the way to the flag. We have more HP every year, and worse fuel consumption. But really, everyone will need to make 5 and a splash, so it doesn’t matter where you are with consumption. If everyone is between 27 and 32 laps on fuel, then everyone will need to be visiting the pits 6 times on October 10………….. Contrary to the beliefs of some, fuel consumption should not decide who wins this 1000km thriller |
||
__________________
“Jamie, Jamie, Jamie. What you have to do is you have to say look; the fact of the matter is that I’m red hot, that Todd Kelly is a ******, I have always thought he was, and I was just mowing him down based on ability”. – Neil Crompton talking to Jamie Whincup, post Bathurst 2005. |
14 Sep 2004, 05:03 (Ref:1095890) | #2 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 366
|
I always thought it was 4 stops at a stretch and a splash if you needed it.
If you get to lap 33, 66, 99, 132, that's four stops and you're home!! I remember the Winfield car running about 38 laps in 1995 before it's first stop, so going on past years (and I'll have to drag out the videos), most cars should make 30 laps of Bathurst on a 120 Litre tank. I know they have more HP now, but 30 laps shouldn't be a drama. Longhurst pitted about 400 times in the Havoline AU one year but was still in the lead with about 15 laps to go before he took himself out...... In an ideal world, a race without safety cars would be bloody fantastic. A true test of economy, not contrived sprints between Safety Cars. Less Safety Cars would make it a much more realistic contest. |
||
__________________
"I still can't spin the wheels all the way down the straight in high gear", Mark Donohue (The Unfair Advantage) commenting to the Porsche engineers on the 1100hp 1973 Can-Am Porsche 917-30 when asked whether the car has enough horsepower yet!! |
14 Sep 2004, 05:19 (Ref:1095898) | #3 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 774
|
00 XR8,
Thanks for that guestimate. I suspect that the pace and gapping of MA's car at Bathurst will be similar to the pace and gapping he was able to get at Sandown. While watching him at pace, I was wondering what his fuel consumption was but because of the day, we plebs never know. I suppose the only yardstick we might have is Murphy from 2003 but with a different engine - goodness knows what the consumption rates will be. It will be fascinating seeing the fuel management strategies. One unnecessary race-pace stop could be a killer. Mike |
||
__________________
Mike McInerney |
14 Sep 2004, 05:21 (Ref:1095899) | #4 | |
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 292
|
The calcuation doesnt take into account the differences in the circuits... longer straights and bigger hills at bathurst. and also the teams could make changes to the engine setup to get extra mileage
|
|
|
14 Sep 2004, 05:30 (Ref:1095904) | #5 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 938
|
Quote:
Sorry bout dat |
|||
__________________
“Jamie, Jamie, Jamie. What you have to do is you have to say look; the fact of the matter is that I’m red hot, that Todd Kelly is a ******, I have always thought he was, and I was just mowing him down based on ability”. – Neil Crompton talking to Jamie Whincup, post Bathurst 2005. |
14 Sep 2004, 05:38 (Ref:1095906) | #6 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 366
|
Re: Bathurst Fuel Consumption
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
"I still can't spin the wheels all the way down the straight in high gear", Mark Donohue (The Unfair Advantage) commenting to the Porsche engineers on the 1100hp 1973 Can-Am Porsche 917-30 when asked whether the car has enough horsepower yet!! |
14 Sep 2004, 05:45 (Ref:1095909) | #7 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,994
|
There are so many yellows now that the consumption and laps required is an ever changing equation. Most teams I would think would aim to do the least amount that they can, but a yellow that appears, just shy of the fuel window , is too juicey a carrot for a few teams to leave and in they will come, sometimes in hindsight seen as a mastersrtoke by an shrewd engineer, but other times a poorly calculated error that is chuckled about by others
The arrival of patchy rain, pretty much removes any fuel consumption problems as the tyres are now dictating when the car stops not the fuel. SBR pulled off the big suprise with Bright and Richo slipping in on around L15, the next year, they did it, along with plenty of others and there were pit booms being towed up pit lane and a whole host of drama's. it is a bit of a raffle i think. but by lap 155 the scene is usually pretty much set, and all the cards are on the table,up untill then, you never know who has a "spash and go" looming up on them. |
||
__________________
Succes is a result of judgment,that is inturn a result of experience that has come from instances of bad judgment. "Montoya made some last minute changes to his suspension but it seemed to effect it's handling"-Classic |
14 Sep 2004, 06:11 (Ref:1095922) | #8 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 364
|
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they use a longer diff ratio as well at Bathurst, this will effect milelage.
|
|
|
14 Sep 2004, 06:23 (Ref:1095931) | #9 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,994
|
But the same every year, so the equation at Bathurst remains the same
|
||
__________________
Succes is a result of judgment,that is inturn a result of experience that has come from instances of bad judgment. "Montoya made some last minute changes to his suspension but it seemed to effect it's handling"-Classic |
14 Sep 2004, 06:29 (Ref:1095937) | #10 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 39
|
Interesting to note at Sandown the SBR engines " seemed " to use fuel quicker than their competitors. For Ambrose and his pace this was no problem (if it was using more?) as his overall pace was quick to make up any additional fuel consumption. What about Bargs and Co. if they also (as it appeared)use a little more gas than others but dont have the chassis package to go head to head with Pirtek pace could this prove to be costly - For example Ambrose fastest lap at Sandown 1.10.82 , Bargs 1.11.70 .... multiply that over 1000k's and....... well as OO XR8 said pre Bathurst calcs are always fun
|
||
|
14 Sep 2004, 06:39 (Ref:1095939) | #11 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 448
|
Its all about how long your on full throttle and the carsare increasingly on full throttle now more so than ever, especially if you have really good drive off the corners, as does ambrose, you will be on full throttle longer, therefore using more fuel, therefore requiring to pit earlier for fuel, but if there are as many safety cars at bathrust as there was at sandown, cars will easily do 4 stops, however some teams are pushing for compulsory 5 stops at bathurst.
|
||
|
14 Sep 2004, 06:48 (Ref:1095943) | #12 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 36
|
just because you are on full throttle longer, this does not mean you will use more fuel...
|
||
|
14 Sep 2004, 07:22 (Ref:1095966) | #13 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,890
|
Plenty of safety cars may have increased the ammount of time that some cars were on the track too.
You could really see the smoke from the cars as they drove under the bridge on the weekend. |
||
__________________
Racing or sport, Hmmmm, you decide?? |
14 Sep 2004, 07:39 (Ref:1095976) | #14 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 250
|
A full lap under green conditions at Sandown consumed roughly 2 litres of fuel. So if Bathurst is twice the length, and bearing in mind the extra grunt it needs to get up the hill, i'd calculate fuel consumption to be just on 4.5 litres per lap, perhaps even more.
If we round up to 5 litres per lap in a tank that holds 120 litres, thats 24 laps it can go under green conditions at Bathurst - being conservative. Bearing in mind at last year's Bathurst: * Majority of cars pitted on Lap 33/34 * Murphy/R.Kelly pitted 4 times throughout the race and won. * Before lap 33 there were 2 safety car periods totaling 5 laps, therefore laps under green were approx 28. * Multiply 28 laps by 4.3 litres of fuel = 120 litres = start with full tank. |
||
__________________
2006 - the year the beasts unleash in Formula 1. Go Nico go! |
14 Sep 2004, 09:52 (Ref:1096089) | #15 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 777
|
Quote:
|
||
__________________
Kieron |
14 Sep 2004, 09:59 (Ref:1096094) | #16 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,370
|
There's the self-perpetuating problem of a yellow and then another one almost immediately after it as someone has an off on cooled off/under pressured tyres, so there are plenty of laps under yellow at Bathurst.
Good topic though- this sort of intriguing stuff is where the true speed at Bathurst often lies, and who has enough brakes and enough fuel but not too much for the last 20-30 laps. Last edited by Mattracer; 14 Sep 2004 at 10:01. |
|
__________________
Holden- How One Legendary Driver Earned Nine Permanent circuits- the life blood of motorsport |
14 Sep 2004, 10:11 (Ref:1096110) | #17 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,182
|
Russell Ingall did come out in public ( I think it was on v8supernerds ) and said that fuel will be a drama at Bathurst and perhaps it will be a 5 stop race.
|
||
__________________
2015 V8Supercar Champion #5 PDA Mark Frosty Winterbottom To Finish First, First you must Finish |
14 Sep 2004, 10:51 (Ref:1096154) | #18 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 169
|
Did anyone else notice the amounts of thick black smoke coming from the lead SBR Rocket in the early laps ?
Maybe they are comprimising fuel consumption for raw horsepower in the enduro's , knowing that these races have now become a 'safety car fest' and they can recoup the lost time that way... |
||
|
14 Sep 2004, 10:53 (Ref:1096157) | #19 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,370
|
Maybe... did anyone notice #9 issuing the same rich mixture smoke as well?
|
|
__________________
Holden- How One Legendary Driver Earned Nine Permanent circuits- the life blood of motorsport |
14 Sep 2004, 11:28 (Ref:1096180) | #20 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,661
|
With all the safety cars at Bathurst now, early speed doesn't seem so important any more.
Infact the last 2 times I can remember a car that was markedly faster than the field was in the '97 Super Tourer race with Plato and Menu in that flying yellow Renault, and the Rat's DJR Ford in '99. Both times they sprinted away from the pack only to be dragged back by the pacecar time and time again. Both times the cars broke too... Do you think Marcos will play the hare at Bathurst? Or will he "buy a ticket to the end game..."? edited by wife. "That was '99 you idiot!!!" Last edited by Average Punter; 14 Sep 2004 at 11:30. |
||
__________________
Punters Beer Fest. Indy 02, Clipsal 03, Winton 04, Paperclip 05, Darwin 06, Oran Park 07, Phillip Island 08, Sandown 09, Townsville 10, Symmons 11, Eastern Creek 12, Winton 13. Townsville 14. Paperclip 15, Sandown 16, Symmons 17, PI 18, The Bend 19 |
14 Sep 2004, 11:37 (Ref:1096193) | #21 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 917
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
888 LOWNDES/WHINCUP 2006-2007-2008 BATHURST 1000 WINNERS !!!! Whincup 2008 champion !-the mighty team 888-now FG for 2009 champion ! 'those who choose to ignore history are are doomed to repeat it' |
14 Sep 2004, 11:41 (Ref:1096197) | #22 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 169
|
Ambrose's performance on Sunday reminded me of the old 'Brock-Crush' days when PB would get out in front and go like hell , while all the other contenders, who started with a more conservative strategy, would see him disappear into the distance. Then they'd all panic & try & play catch up, generally with dire consequences.
For my money, I'd go like hell.... |
||
|
15 Sep 2004, 10:14 (Ref:1097095) | #23 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 16,040
|
i dont think we got to see the SBR fuel economy,
they were running to a plan, that saw their first pit at the opening of the brake change window and stopped 104 laps latter(exactly the minimum amount of laps each driver must do ) for the 2nd stop this gave the no. 1 driver the maximum amout of time in the car for the last stint. it was a great bit of strategy, which ended with both cars on the podium |
|
|
15 Sep 2004, 10:20 (Ref:1097101) | #24 | ||
Race Official
1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 47,174
|
With the expected safety cars, I dont think its an issue if the cars have 5 stops anyway.... Dynamik topped both their cars up last weekend at the first safety car.. they were alone in doing so, but it did put both cars out of sequence (on purpose) and gave them some places in traffic they may not have otherwise had.
|
||
__________________
Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
15 Sep 2004, 10:26 (Ref:1097104) | #25 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 16,040
|
GTR
wouldnt that depend on when the 5th stop is made. Skaife made a fifth stop last year and he went from 2nd to i think it was last(10th or something) whereas bright made his fifth(ok additional ) stop early in 98 and took the win |
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Fuel consumption on 4 stroke engines | scoff | Racing Technology | 14 | 8 Sep 2005 00:05 |
Fuel Consumption Formulae | lj79 | Sportscar & GT Racing | 6 | 19 May 2005 08:12 |
Bathurst Champions Opt For Experience In Sandown and Bathurst Enduros | buza | Australasian Touring Cars. | 2 | 11 Apr 2005 11:43 |
[FIA GT] FIA GT fuel consumption and tire wear | Nizro | Sportscar & GT Racing | 7 | 16 Feb 2005 23:39 |
Fuel Consumption | touringlegend | Road Car Forum | 8 | 22 Oct 2004 18:40 |