2011 Schedule News

[JagtechOhio]

Yannick, please don't take this as criticism of your views, and they are shared by many.

ISC had a ticket policy at their tracks until this season. If you wanted to buy a Nascar ticket, you had to buy a season package that included the IndyCar event at the same track.

The opposite was true, I tried to go to Chicago for the IndyCar race last year (final event at the track) and was told I had to pay for a season package! The Nascar races had already been run.

So Nascar fans would go to the IndyCar races, or sell their tickets off cheap. At least that guaranteed ISC some return and attendance. When I sat in the stands at Homestead last year, most of the people there were Nascar fans who really didn't know what was going on.

With attendance at Nascar races falling, ISC split the ticket package to lower the cost for fans of each Series. This was a red flag to me, and the first ISC race of 2010 at Kansas proved what the result would be.

ISC doesn't see how they can make any money from IndyCar events, and have always been unenthusiastic about investing a lot in promotion. So their choice would be to spend a lot of money to try and sell tickets, or drop IndyCar.

It doesn't seem logical that ISC is trying to bury IndyCar: they tried running the races when they could cover the cost. Now they can't, since few people will buy a ticket by choice.

I don't think there is any more to it than that. The empty bleachers at Watkins Glen were $145 each to sit on the front straight. Somebody lost a boatload of money, no matter how many campers were in the woods.

Today I read that the sanctioning fee is back to being reported at $1.5M (Bruce Martin, S/I.com). That was the figure that most people were using, and which Bernard had stated he wanted to raise.

[marcostraz]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

The opposite was true, I tried to go to Chicago for the IndyCar race last year (final event at the track) and was told I had to pay for a season package! The Nascar races had already been run.

I went to Chicagoland last year and I bought a ticket only for Indycar...not in the website of Chicagoland Speedway...

But the question is another: ISC doesn't see how they can make any money from IndyCar events, or ISC doesn't swant to make any money from IndyCar events? If they don't make any promotion, they don't make any money...but if they had done a good promotion, what would happen?

For example, I have been in Chicago one month last year in the period of the race...during that period I haven't seen a single advertising banner or poster or something else of the race...how can people (except IndyCar fans) know that in the weekend will be a sporting event if the place were this event will be doesn't make any promotion?

[JagtechOhio]

The ticket you bought had been paid for by a Nascar fan who was forced to buy it, and didn't use it. Some get thown out, some get resold at a loss to ticket brokers or IndyCar fans like you.

ISC didn't get a dime for those tickets this year.

The lack of promotion is a void that the Series has to fill, or continue to suffer the consequences. The track owner and promoter should have to contractually guarantee a specified investment for advertising in return for a reduced santioning fee. They know the local market and where best to invest the money.

Or the Series will have to dedicate a portion of the sanctioning fee to locally promote the races themselves. That's the way I would do it, so they know how much is being spent and can track the effectiveness of each program at each event. Then make it better for the next one.

ISC wants to make money, and are responsible to do so for their stockholders or watch the public investment falter. They would run an IndyCar event at all of their tracks if there was a profit to be turned.

[marcostraz]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

The ticket you bought had been paid for by a Nascar fan who was forced to buy it, and didn't use it. Some get thown out, some get resold at a loss to ticket brokers or IndyCar fans like you.

I don't know...but I didn't buy it from a private seller (i.e. from ebay or a forum)...maybe some websites have an agreement with track owners to buy a package of tickets and sell them one by one, like for a lot of other sporting events...

[JagtechOhio]

Point is that every ticket which gets scanned at the turnstyles is paid for, even the "free" ones.

Marlboro paid the tracks big money to hold promotional events, and thus got a block of "paid for" tickets in exchange. So they hand them out as free to the fans. Used to, anyway.

Somebody along the chain paid at least $50 to the track for the ticket you bought, and resold it to you for $25. The Nascar fans chose to no longer absorb that loss, so the ticket package was split up.

This year, more than half the tickets never left the box office...at Kansas, Watkins Glen, Chicagoland and Homestead. So ISC bailed.

The only reason they are dangling Fontana for the IRL is because ISC has only one major race scheduled there for next year. And they know the IRL may have to take it as a last resort.

So ISC probably put a scary low number on the table for a sanctioning fee, and the IRL is waiting to find out about Vegas to see if they have to take it or leave it.

ISC could offer $.5M, sell 20,000 tickets with no promotion and make money on the race. Do you know what Fontana will look like with 20,000 people there?

Right now, today, IRL should be spending every available dollar to BOMBARD Miami with advertising and incentives. You have to make a stand somewhere, sometime. I said exactly the same thing at the same time last year, and the attendance and ratings are lower today.

I would have done it for Kansas, when it was obvious the split ticket package was going to kill attendance. Bernard should have done it after seeing 10,000 people at Kansas, and started pouring effort and resources into the next race, and then the next. The twin 200's idea was for this year's Chicago race. The idea wasn't bought, either were the tickets.

That's one example of targeted local promotions that you didn't see in Chicago, because they do not exist. So blame the track owner, and watch all the tracks drop off the schedule one by one.

The result is that Vegas promoters look at the attendance at SMI's Kentucky track, and say "Why us too?"

[JagtechOhio]

Looks like the funding for Milwaukee came together:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100907/IRL/100909903

[icemachine]

So from JagTech's link...

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100907/IRL/100909903

The ovals: Indianapolis, Texas, Iowa, Milwaukee, New Hampshire, Motegi, Kentucky and either Las Vegas or Fontana.

The nonovals: Brazil, St. Petersburg, Long Beach, Barber Motorsports Park, Toronto, Edmonton, Mid-Ohio, Infineon Raceway and Baltimore.

and from the Baltimore announcement thread...

3 Jun 2010, 14:32 #68
icemachine

Looking at what races are confirmed, its going to be interesting to see what gets shuffled next year. I think the opening line up is pretty much set

Sao Paulo Mar 13 or 20
St. Pete Mar 27 or Apr 3
Alabama Apr 10 or 17
Long Beach Apr 24 or May 1
Kansas? May 1
Indy May 29
Texas June 5
Iowa? June 19?
New Hampshire? June 26 or July 3
Toronto Jul 10 or 17
Quebec?Cleveland? ???
Baltimore Aug 7th
Mid Ohio Aug 14 or 21
Infineon Aug 21/ 28/ Sep 4
Chicagoland? Sep 4/11
Kentucky Sep 11/18/21
Motegi ???
Qingdao? ???
Las Vegas ???

I'm assuming SMI gets the 5 race deal (TX, NH, Inf, KY, LV) Smith wants, and Edmonton doesn't keep pumping money into Northlands especially with the airport being shut down. I doubt Kansas or Chicagoland will be on the schedule but I've slotted them in anyhow

So I was optimistic about Quebec and China, and too pessimistic with Edmonton. Didn't see Milwaukee coming back either, but maybe I should start picking numbers for the lottery

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Point is that every ticket which gets scanned at the turnstyles is paid for, even the "free" ones.

Marlboro paid the tracks big money to hold promotional events, and thus got a block of "paid for" tickets in exchange. So they hand them out as free to the fans. Used to, anyway.

Somebody along the chain paid at least $50 to the track for the ticket you bought, and resold it to you for $25. The Nascar fans chose to no longer absorb that loss, so the ticket package was split up.

This year, more than half the tickets never left the box office...at Kansas, Watkins Glen, Chicagoland and Homestead. So ISC bailed.

The only reason they are dangling Fontana for the IRL is because ISC has only one major race scheduled there for next year. And they know the IRL may have to take it as a last resort.

So ISC probably put a scary low number on the table for a sanctioning fee, and the IRL is waiting to find out about Vegas to see if they have to take it or leave it.

ISC could offer $.5M, sell 20,000 tickets with no promotion and make money on the race. Do you know what Fontana will look like with 20,000 people there?

Right now, today, IRL should be spending every available dollar to BOMBARD Miami with advertising and incentives. You have to make a stand somewhere, sometime. I said exactly the same thing at the same time last year, and the attendance and ratings are lower today.

I would have done it for Kansas, when it was obvious the split ticket package was going to kill attendance. Bernard should have done it after seeing 10,000 people at Kansas, and started pouring effort and resources into the next race, and then the next. The twin 200's idea was for this year's Chicago race. The idea wasn't bought, either were the tickets.

That's one example of targeted local promotions that you didn't see in Chicago, because they do not exist. So blame the track owner, and watch all the tracks drop off the schedule one by one.

The result is that Vegas promoters look at the attendance at SMI's Kentucky track, and say "Why us too?"

In recent years I have gotten to see some inner workings of race tracks and have been privy to some numbers, here and overseas. Basically I would summarize it as the tracks themselves don't want all this risk that you talk about. They just want a fee for rental of the facilities and services and not to carry the risk or reward of selling tickets and promoting and all that.

And like a lot of music bands, CART/Champcar/indycar are much the same they don't want to carry risk either so they just want their sanctioning fee. Whether 5000 tickets are sold or 50000 they get their fee either way.

You can see that often this philosophy of no one carrying risk is going to butt heads. Or you have a promoter sandwiched in the middle.

It was said a number of years ago the irl asked for a $2 million fee for a race, recently it was said $1.5 million. The irl is not a hot property so I doubt it's going to be able to continue to ask for higher fees or not at all. In some cases they might end up as Champcar did, promoting some of their own races, which can work really well or be a disaster.

Mostly open wheel racing once the war started it became a tug of love between patrons and as the ship sinks, there are fewer left to float all the irl's near 2 decades of losses. Nascar/ISC(kissing cousins they are) have won with open wheel nearly dead, competition crushed. They have no use anymore for the irl. It's a dog turd they are scraping off their shoe. If the irl wants to come to the table and pay up for the track and promote it themselves I am sure they will listen but the days of writing checks for them is over.

[JagtechOhio]

Then it reads like my opinion follows your fact. The Milwaukee deal will be announced Friday, and at least a portion of the subsidy will be coming from in-house from all indications.

[DanicaFan]

Milwaukee is in, thats why they are announcing the schedule from Milwaukee on Friday. It should be the next race after the Indy 500 like it used to be.

[PZippy]

Glad to see Milwaukee back on the calendar!

[JagtechOhio]

Amen to that,

and welcome, PZip! Always great to see another fan in this little corner of the world.

[NaBUru38]

Homestead is unofficially officially toast.

Originally Posted by AP

A person with knowledge of the IRL's 2011 plan told the Associated Press on Wednesday that Homestead is not among the venues selected to host a race next year.

[SMI owner Bruton Smith] referred to the track's location as "North Cuba"

[dj4monie]

North Cuba huh? A likely comment coming from a Southern White Dude.

The Mile is back but eh, it wouldn't have been all that bad if hadn't come back.

Seems all the Indy Car South FL residents are Butt-Hurt because they won't be able to sleep in their beds the week before the final race of the season, they'll have to wait 2-3 days before they can make there way back to the East Coast.

I still say the 2011 is basically null and void, it doesn't matter. Its been rendered unimportant because the new car will be here in 2012 and fans are eager to see if the new cars will produce a better race overall. It likely will only because everybody will be on the same page as far as setups are concerned, so at least for the first half of the season or so, maybe even until 2013 the racing could be closer and more people will find victory lane.

So for me, it doesn't matter what or where they run the current cars. The same 3-6 threats to win will remain.

I wonder how much attention this announcement will get with the NFL game the night before and College Football on Friday Night and Saturday. I doubt anybody but the hardcore will be taking about it on Sunday.

[JagtechOhio]

Yep, that Cuba statement was crumbs from a cracker.

Homestead was another decent facility to run a race that nobody sold, so nobody showed. I agree that the 1.5's are not ideal, but they refuse to spec the cars to suit the track. You have to race some ovals, or you lose them all.

An interesting tidbit from Monday that sort of sums up the state of affairs: Penske and Ganassi had a test day scheduled at Homestead. They likey sent spare rigs with spare cars, as it would have been pretty tough to turn the team cars around after running Saturday night and then truck them from Kentucky to Miami. And the team cars go on the plane for Motegi tomorrow, shipped from Indy

Like those two teams need the test time at Homestead? Joke is, they didn't get any: catch fencing to protect the inside retaining wall on the back stretch had been removed by the track. Like Homestead didn't know they were coming?

[DanicaFan]

EXPECTED 2011 IZOD INDYCAR SCHEDULE

MARCH 27 – St. Pete (street circuit)
APRIL 10 – Birmingham, Ala. (road course)
APRIL 17 – Long Beach (street)
MAY 1 – Brazil (street)
MAY 29 – Indianapolis 500
JUNE 12 – Texas doubleheader (oval)
JUNE 19 – Milwaukee (oval)
JUNE 26 – Iowa (oval)
JULY 10 – Toronto (street)
JULY 24 – Edmonton (road course)
AUG. 7 – Mid-Ohio (road course)
AUG. 14 – Loudon (oval)
AUG. 28 – Sonoma (road course)
SEPT. 4 – Baltimore (street)
SEPT. 18 – Motegi, Japan (oval)
OCT. 2 – Kentucky (oval)
OCT. 16 – Las Vegas (oval)

[Purist]

DJ, interesting that you bring up football. I was just logging out of my email, and saw this story. I wonder what this will do to the popularity of the game, and just when the **** will really hit the fan on that situation.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...uestions090810

As for the 2011 calendar, we need more of the very top-rung road courses on the continent in the series.

As for the ovals, I like the better variety we'll be seeing, and these tracks should put on better races with these cars than some of the departing 1.5-milers. In that respect, couldn't this be considered a real move to "improve the product"?

[JagtechOhio]

April 30, 2010, Racin' Today:

“I will promise you that one thing, this (2010) is not the last year,” IRL CEO Randy Bernard told RacinToday.com on Friday when asked if the IRL was racing for the final time at Kansas Speedway this Saturday.
__________________________________________________________

July 5, 2010, ESPN.go.com, from Watkins Glen:

"This is a beautiful track," Bernard said. "The weather's perfect, and there's quite a lot of fans out there -- a lot of campers. I'd really like to find a way to continue to race here."

To S/I. com:

"I see it; I love it. I think it's a great place," Bernard said of The Glen. "I would like to see it stay on the schedule. Why not have it the weekend before?"

__________________________________________________________

Sept. 9, 2010, JS online (Milwaukee Journal/ Sentinel:

Bernard: “Chicagoland, ISC, has their primary own objectives, and IndyCar has their primary objectives, and I’m not sure we’re all on the same page right now. But we still have a great relationship with ISC.”
_________________________________________________________
Yahoo Sports, July 4, 2010:

Bernard: “We will not end our season at Homestead. I just do not want to end it at Homestead,” he said. “Las Vegas is ideal. It could happen next year. If Homestead stays, it definitely won’t be our last event.”
________________________________________________________

With the exception of ending the season in Las Vegas...which is currently a hope, not a fact...the selection of events for the 2011 IRL schedule has been based around the interests of ISC. And they are not too interested.

Whether the resulting schedule has changed for the better or not is debatable. Kansas, Watkins Glen and Chigagoland were not electively dropped by the IRL in "a real move to improve the product."

And the marketing strategy at Homestead...the marketing which Bernard says that ISC refuses to do...was based on branding Homestead as the "Champion's Track". The three-year deal they signed with the IRL stipulated Homestead as the last race, to join the three season finales of the Nascar series. No way the IRL would be invited to return if the race would not be for the championship.

[DanicaFan]

Originally Posted by Purist

DJ, interesting that you bring up football. I was just logging out of my email, and saw this story. I wonder what this will do to the popularity of the game, and just when the **** will really hit the fan on that situation.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...uestions090810

As for the 2011 calendar, we need more of the very top-rung road courses on the continent in the series.

As for the ovals, I like the better variety we'll be seeing, and these tracks should put on better races with these cars than some of the departing 1.5-milers. In that respect, couldn't this be considered a real move to "improve the product"?

NO, this is not an improvement. Still only 17 races (I dont count Texas as 2, its still 1 venue), more road/street courses than ovals again. We lost some good ovals with Chicago and Kansas.

They also bunched up the types of tracks again. The only thing I am happy with on this expected schedule is Milwaukee being back.

Yes, if the Las Vegas deal doesnt go thru, the finale will be at Fontana.

[NaBUru38]

Four new races, three of them close to big cities and active investors, and four lost races that had inactive investors, is good news. 53 / 47% oval / non-oval course balance is good news. Having back a track with 107 years of open-wheel racing tradition is good news.

[JagtechOhio]

The venue doesn't matter much, it's about the quality of the product and who among the sponsors and potential customers are willing to pay for it.

Tony Johns wrote this today on Popoff Valve:

"Honda sponsors the 2011 Indy Grand Prix of Birmingham...

...because apparently Legacy Credit Union isn't coming back to sponsor Barber Motorsports Park. If you wondered why the ICONIC engine specs seemed to benefit Honda so much, here's your answer why."

Johns usually doesn't get his facts straight, but Honda has in fact stepped to sponsor the remaining two races on the Barber contract. That surprises me: if Honda continues to subsidize IRL sactioning fees, and I think this brings the total to 6 races for 2011, then I am mistaken to presume they will be cutting back their investment. So that might be a little good news.

The bad news is that this shiny new race and facility reportedly drew 50,000 fans and was a big success. And couldn't find a title sponsor for the next race.

SMI didn't sell too many seats at Kentucky, so we'll see if there is real potential for growth at New Hampshire. Milwaukee will be a money loser for the IRL. The success of the 2011 schedule will only be measured after next season is over, and when it becomes apparent who is really making the investments.

[PZippy]

Being in Chicago, I'm sad to see all of the ISC tracks getting thrown out. Some of these track ARE good tracks and produce good races. That being said - let me tell you this - ISC is no friend of IndyCar. I (the company I work for) is a former associate sponsor of an IndyCar team. We've ceased our program due to the economy more than anything else. We actually yielded some good return while it was going. In being a sponsor for over 5 years, I cannot tell you what a huge difference there was being at ISC tracks vs. non-ISC tracks. At Indy, St. Pete, Sonoma, Milwaukee, Texas, and Kentucky (to name a few) we were treated well, like Kings, as if we really mattered and were important. At ISC tracks (Fontana, Chicago, & Kansas) my impression was that we were afterthoughts, something to fill in the calendar. At our renewal meetings with the team, we even complained about this, but were told there was nothing to be done to change it. ISC was filling some dates when NASCAR couldn't come to town. This divorce has been brewing a long time - glad to see Randy Bernard has the stones to stop being pushed around.

I'm fine getting into bed with Bruton - even if he does have kind of a big mouth.

[JagtechOhio]

PZippy,

Thanks for adding your real-world insight. Please check your private message mailbox.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Johns usually doesn't get his facts straight, but Honda has in fact stepped to sponsor the remaining two races on the Barber contract. That surprises me: if Honda continues to subsidize IRL sactioning fees, and I think this brings the total to 6 races for 2011, then I am mistaken to presume they will be cutting back their investment. So that might be a little good news.

The bad news is that this shiny new race and facility reportedly drew 50,000 fans and was a big success. And couldn't find a title sponsor for the next race.

SMI didn't sell too many seats at Kentucky, so we'll see if there is real potential for growth at New Hampshire. Milwaukee will be a money loser for the IRL. The success of the 2011 schedule will only be measured after next season is over, and when it becomes apparent who is really making the investments.

The Barber race is a Honda company picnic, so there is probably a guarantee of a sale of X amount of tickets/hospitality and I would doubt Honda is paying full rate card for a title sponsorship if anything at all.

Milwaukee a money loser for the irl? Only if the irl self promotes the race, otherwise they get their sanctioning fee to turn up.

As I said before up to a point the risk is on the promoter or track. The irl gets it's sanctioning fee either way. However as the irl is finding out, with a crap product it is asking for fees no one wants to pay, cause the promoter/track aint makin a profit. It's a game of musical chairs and the irl is running out of chairs left to plop it's indy behind on.

In terms of Honda, well, beggars can't be choosy, but the indy program could get the chop at any time. Manufacturers are notorious for canceling programs and funding with little notice and Honda has a history of it. People can food fight over the exact dollar amount Honda really contributes(could care less myself) but I'd never take them for granted I'll just say that.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by PZippy

Being in Chicago, I'm sad to see all of the ISC tracks getting thrown out. Some of these track ARE good tracks and produce good races. That being said - let me tell you this - ISC is no friend of IndyCar. I (the company I work for) is a former associate sponsor of an IndyCar team. We've ceased our program due to the economy more than anything else. We actually yielded some good return while it was going. In being a sponsor for over 5 years, I cannot tell you what a huge difference there was being at ISC tracks vs. non-ISC tracks. At Indy, St. Pete, Sonoma, Milwaukee, Texas, and Kentucky (to name a few) we were treated well, like Kings, as if we really mattered and were important. At ISC tracks (Fontana, Chicago, & Kansas) my impression was that we were afterthoughts, something to fill in the calendar. At our renewal meetings with the team, we even complained about this, but were told there was nothing to be done to change it. ISC was filling some dates when NASCAR couldn't come to town. This divorce has been brewing a long time - glad to see Randy Bernard has the stones to stop being pushed around.

I'm fine getting into bed with Bruton - even if he does have kind of a big mouth.

I think rather than Rodeo Randy having the "stones" to drop the ISC, I think you'll find the reality is the other way around. Without the ISC's largess, the irl would have never survived, CART probably would have come back and been the series today.

Once Champcar let go and the war had finished decimating the open wheel fan base, ISC really doesn't have a need to carry the irl and it's water anymore. To Americans in 2010, motor racing=Nascar, job done, time for the ISC to move on.