FIA and team orders

[Inigo Montoya]

I stumbled upon the following page on the FIA homepage. It gives a nice summary of the history of team orders, and the FIA's official stand.

http://www.fia.com/homepage/teamorde...ordersFIA.html

[Liz]

The following examples illustrate some suggestions which are currently under consideration:

1. Unless tactical considerations make this impossible, team orders which are agreed within a team before a competition starts should be made public. "If you plan to fix the race or rig the championship, let us know before the season starts so we can save the price of a ticket or turn off the television." This is what Jean Todt has aleady done. Govern yourselves accordingly.

2. If the finishing order between two drivers has been pre-arranged, they should take up these pre-arranged positions as soon as is practicable, having regard to all the circumstances. "If TGF is programmed to win, Rubens should let him by in Lap 1, not 100 feet from the finish line." See No. 1 above.

3. Team orders which a team considers it necessary to issue during a competition, eg “hold positions”, should, whenever possible, be made public as soon as they are given . "Tell us the race finish is rigged so we can leave early and beat the traffic out of the parking lot." This is the only rule that makes any sense, and this also allows us to see if the Designated Loser disobeys orders too (e.g. Pironi, whom you see now even Bernie and Max admit was lying when he made up all those excuses for why he won a race that was not his to win.)

It'll be interesting to see what rules, if any, they come up with next season after hearing from the racing world at large. And whether Ferrari will obey them.

Thanks for posting that link.

[JonesF1]

Like rules really mean anything in F1.

[Inigo Montoya]

Notice that they ask for input and give an email address. Unfortunately, the deadline was Sept. 1. Why wasn't this link more clearly on their home page back in the summer, if their intention was to consult with the fans, as they state??

In fact, I still have not been able to find the link to this on their homepage! I accidentally found it doing a search in google.

[Red]

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya
Why wasn't this link more clearly on their home page back in the summer, if their intention was to consult with the fans, as they state??

It was, immediately behind the FIA logo if I remember correctly! A couple of days after Austria and certainly was there somewhere in june-july... I can't blame them for removing the link, I can imagine the Giga Bytes of stupid e-mails that they received....

[f1manoz]

Granted, team orders have been used throughout F1 history, but never have they been used in such a way as Ferrari uses them... Ferrari even make a mockery of the use of team orders!!!!

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by Red
It was, immediately behind the FIA logo if I remember correctly!

Ah, I must have missed it on my daily visit to the FIA website

[Red]

No-no, I mean it! It WAS there, it was in such a blueish rectangle like this one:



Actually I can understand how you missed it, since I also missed the point when it dissapeared. Actually I wanted to consult it yesterday and hurried at FIA web site as I was sure I can find it on the front-page. Much to my frustration it was not there anymore...

And the document that you mentioned was only one page of the matter, actually it also included an excerpt from a press conferrence of Max. Anyway, the news that FIA consults public opinion hit every website and newspaper...

[Inigo Montoya]

I know you saw it. I was just trying to make a joke about how I never go the FIA website...

[Kex]

From that FIA page
"..and in Australia in 1996 Williams again imposed team orders with Jacques Villeneuve moving over to help Hill to win the race."

Hmm not quite. Villeneuve had a problem and the team told him to move over because his oil pressure was dropping and there was a real risk of him retiring. The above suggests that JV was instructed to move over to let Damon win, like Rubens does for Michael Schumacher.

Also Mansell pulled over to let Patrese through relatively early into the race, not "at the end" as stated. Indeed Mansell's engine blew after 19 laps.

Two points that I felt were relevant and needed making.

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by f1manoz
Granted, team orders have been used throughout F1 history, but never have they been used in such a way as Ferrari uses them... Ferrari even make a mockery of the use of team orders!!!!

At least that's not as bad as Villeneuve in the Williams letting BOTH McLarens through to 1st and 2nd in Jerez '97 as part of a collusion between the two teams!

Also remember Melbourne '98? I know Mika made an error regarding when to pit, but he could easily have said no to that team order couldn't he? And McLaren lied about it afterwards!

Austria 2002 was a farce, but I feel the examples listed above were worse.

[ASCII Man]

Jacques only let them by to save the car and avoid a collision, and you call that even worse than Austria '02!?

Another blind tifoso...

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by ®îjñtjûh
Jacques only let them by to save the car and avoid a collision, and you call that even worse than Austria '02!?

Another blind tifoso...

Yeah, but I saw Head and Dennis talking to each other during that race. Surely that's a sign of collusion. If not, I don't know what is.

And BTW not all Ferrari and MS fans are ****ers!

[ASCII Man]

Hmmmm... Head and Dennis talking doesn't have to mean just that, could be just talking about how they can't get it up in bed or stuff...

[Liz]

Or talking about what a TGF was for pulling that stupid stunt on Jacques.

[ASCII Man]

Read the "Todt's Powertrip" thread for my opinion on that matter...

[ASCII Man]

Not that i had anything new to say there but it still ****es me off...

[Red]

Well Inigo, your loss... I mean not quite daily, but every once in a while is worth a visit at FIA's web site. If nothing else, but they DO have nice maps of the circuits Check them out: FIA press materials