Team Orders

davebreen · 12 May 2002, 22:54 (Ref:284328)

I know everyone is disgraced at TGF and Ferrari( myself included) for the farce of a race today, but my question is, If any other team and/or driver was in the same position would they do the same thing? For the team it means the same amount of constructors points and more chance of winning the WDC. So would Montoya and Williams n ot do the same, Coulthard and McClaren not sacrfice reputation to increase their chances of scooping the double?

Don K · 13 May 2002, 05:58 (Ref:284596)

Hakkinen did it for Coulthard last year (possibly without a team order).
Ralf (according to rumours) refused to do it for Montoya on 2 occasions last year (radio problems).
Salo and Michael did it for Irvine in 1999.

Is it worse when you do it without trying to hide it?

Red · 13 May 2002, 06:02 (Ref:284599)

Quote:

Originally posted by Don K
Ralf (according to rumours) refused to do it for Montoya on 2 occasions last year (radio problems).

Interesting that you mentioned that. I remember Ralf being trashed in this forum for that.

calais · 13 May 2002, 07:07 (Ref:284616)

red, those cases you mentioned were'nt involving two drivers racing for a win.
and when williams asked halfie to let JPM through, it had to do with stategy, they werent racing for a win.
please dont try to compare those incidents with this travesty of justice!!!!!!!!!!

Red · 13 May 2002, 07:58 (Ref:284655)

What's the difference? Racing is racing right? For position, for win, strategy, what difference does it make? (Other than a Schumacher being ordered to move over for a Montoya)? Look, I'm not saying that I'm happy with the situation. Actually I consider Ralf's attitude from that race as wrong from the team's perspective. But if you want to be a purist be it to the end.

calais · 13 May 2002, 08:09 (Ref:284668)

NO!!
halfie was asked to move over because he was on a different strategy to JPM and was clearly holding him up.
it cannot be compared to yesterday's diabolical display by F1's most diabolical and hated team.
it has nothing to do with purity

kdr · 13 May 2002, 08:09 (Ref:284669)

i don't know if either of those teams mentioned has got involved in this debate...but i'll bet either would do exactly the same thing as ferrari if they had ms(38 points ahead of their 2nd driver)in their cockpit.

you don't think so?!

Red · 13 May 2002, 08:16 (Ref:284676)

I agree kdr. With a small amendament: I (a very optimistic teammanager) might consider giving 10 points to my second driver and increasing his chances to get second place in the final standings. But that only if I'm sure that my first driver does not have a "winning" streak of 4 consecutive DNF's like he did just a couple of years back.

Calais, there is no difference between the situations whatsoever. It's either an individual sport and Ralf was fighting for position or a team sport and the most loved team maximize their chances to win the Championsip. Can't go both ways.

calais · 13 May 2002, 08:19 (Ref:284680)

if your refering to ferrari as "the most loved team", you have obvoiusly been ignoring a lot of posts since last night!!!!!!!

Red · 13 May 2002, 08:23 (Ref:284684)

No, of course I'm not ignoring. Actually the tifosi that actively post in this forum are not enough to make a basketball team (without reserves).

kdr · 13 May 2002, 08:28 (Ref:284689)

and whats the chances of when ms has wdc sewn up...him pulling aside for runens? 99.9%?

my advice to all those who bet on rubens yesterday...save it for when ms has the title!

Red · 13 May 2002, 08:29 (Ref:284691)

100%. He did it at Indy for example. He did that before for Eddie...

f1manoz · 13 May 2002, 08:30 (Ref:284695)

Next time Rubens, take him out. And make a good job of it too!

Red · 13 May 2002, 08:34 (Ref:284701)

Don't hold your breath. May I bring to your attention an excerpt from the Post race Press Conference?

Quote:

Question: If you were in the same position as Rubens, what would you do?
Juan Pablo Montoya: Well, I would probably have to lift. If I was in Rubens' position I either lift or look for a job somewhere else. Simple.

f1manoz · 13 May 2002, 08:36 (Ref:284702)

Yes, but of course JPM would say that as he wouldn't be stupid enough to be manipulated into agreeing to those terms.

If Rubens had any balls, he should tell Ferrari to shove their new contract and walk out.

At least he'd still retain his honour and dignity.

calais · 13 May 2002, 08:36 (Ref:284703)

qoute by JPM
what would you have done in rubens position??
looked for another job!!!!!!!!!
HAAAAHAAAA!!!!!

Red · 13 May 2002, 08:39 (Ref:284709)

You guys are not seriuos do you.

Manoz, that's what Eddie did. And yes, he has his chance of being Champion.

Crank Case · 13 May 2002, 08:57 (Ref:284727)

The FIA are to make a statement later today regarding team orders.
I know what they are going to say now F1 is a team sport no rules were broken BLAH BLAH BLAH!!

**Adam43** · 13 May 2002, 09:18 (Ref:284743)

Michael said this in the press conference:
"If you look at what has happened with Hakkinen and Coulthard in 1999, Hakkinen could have almost lost the championship because of the Spa situation in 1999."

He's right. And McLaren knew it too and they still let them race.

We all know why it was done, it's just that some of us think that it would be better to take the risk.

Sometimes it is better to lose.

Red · 13 May 2002, 09:20 (Ref:284745)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
He's right. And McLaren knew it too and they still let them race.

Not exactly. Actually that was a very subtle mind-game: "Here this you Irvine, you're so small and insignificant that we can beat you without teamorders."

**Adam43** · 13 May 2002, 09:31 (Ref:284746)

That's too subtle for me.

**Adam43** · 13 May 2002, 09:35 (Ref:284750)

Those little mind-games (if Irvine noticed them) are, obviously, worth more than the extra 4 points that Mika would have got!

Red · 13 May 2002, 09:42 (Ref:284755)

Oh, Eddie did notice that. Added to the low morale that reigned in Ferrari camp that was a good bet. Look at Eddie's results: other than Austrian and German GP, he only rarely found himself on the podium, and no higher that 3rd step. (That has changed in last couple of races though)

**Adam43** · 13 May 2002, 09:47 (Ref:284760)

I'd never realised those results could be explained by that.

In fact it's probably the reason why he hasn't had a podium while at Jaguar.

Red · 13 May 2002, 09:48 (Ref:284763)

I don't say that this was the only reason for his poor results..

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Team Orders and Team Tactics	Led ZeppF1	Formula One	19	25 Sep 2003 04:09
Team orders, again !!!	Speed	Formula One	18	30 Jul 2002 19:19
Should The Fia Ban Team Orders	Valve Bounce	Formula One	46	29 Jun 2002 09:23
Team Orders	wodonnell	Formula One	13	13 May 2002 12:50
Team Orders?	Liz	ChampCar World Series	3	12 Sep 2000 00:57