The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga

[Pandamasque]

This pic by pan_nullo got me thinking...
link

Maybe the new front bodywork is actually a high-DF/drag setup not intended for Le Mans? It's like the 908, that had 2 different front aero solutions for LM and other races. The high-DF version used to have an 'open' splitter sending a lot of air through the front bodywork and under the suspension components, while the LM version looked more like the early TS030 with a ramp on top of the splitter sending air over the front rather than through it.

PS: just noticed that the splitter sides now look less like F1 front endplates.

[Rennen]

[QUOTE=Coopz21 x;3068891]Honestly, i think that a bloody good looking car!! i liked the old one but i LOVE this!

Im quite annoyed they arent racing clearly the car IS ready to be used they could at least just go around in the practices and then try for qualifying :/[/QUOTE:

Perhaps a brand new car needs shaking down and testing first?

[Gingers4Justice]

Is that air intake legal? I thought the Lola-Aston had to lower theirs so that the bottom did not seperate from the roof, yet this seems to have a raised intake?

[chernaudi]

Apparently Audi didn't get the memo either, because both the Audi R18 and Toyota TS030 have those raised boundary layer intakes.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

TMaybe the new front bodywork is actually a high-DF/drag setup not intended for Le Mans? It's like the 908, that had 2 different front aero solutions for LM and other races. The high-DF version used to have an 'open' splitter sending a lot of air through the front bodywork and under the suspension components, while the LM version looked more like the early TS030 with a ramp on top of the splitter sending air over the front rather than through it.

I think that Toyota looked at Audi and the car that they showed yesterday, is in low drag/Le Mans aero configuration.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Simmi

So if I heard that right on RLM Graham Goodwin said TMG's chairman said that the worldwide carbon fibre shortage has hampered them in getting the chassis built.

And he has confirmed that they will be running at all WEC rounds post Le Mans.

Graham reiterates some of the highlights of his conversation with the TMG president on twitter.

Originally Posted by @dsceditor

Interesting stuff from Toyota At Spa today - Second TS030 will shake down at Le Mans Test Day #FIAWEC

Originally Posted by @dsceditor

Toyota intend to run "Ahead of Audi at Le Mans" but add thawt "Audi are 99% likely to win" #FIAWEC

Originally Posted by @dsceditor

Toyota also confirmed that they will enter all WEC rounds starting from Le Mans #FIAWEC

Originally Posted by @dsceditor

@ToyotaPR Thanks fo that one - it was a reference to the strides in hybrid power/ weight since the Supra win by Mr Yamashina today

I also see that he wrote an article on DSC: http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewAr...E629D2383BF24E Can someone with a subscription provide a summary?

[gwyllion]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99323 gives some information that was provided during today's press conference.

Vasselon explains that the production process of the car is so slow because they do almost everything in house. It will be impossible to build a spare tub for Le Mans, so the drivers have to be careful not to damage the cars.

Simply because our initial 2012 programme was not designed to be a championship attack but a learning year where we decided to do a couple of races, because races are the best for learning,. We knew we only had one monocoque, then it was accelerated. But unlike the others who are using suppliers, we are manufacturing in our team 80 per cent of the car. This includes the monocoque and we can only do one at a time and it is as simple as that. We cannot suddenly employ 50 people we have to spread the workload.

He also states that it will be difficult to finish the second car in time for the test day.

It looks very difficult. For the full Le Mans race, we are now confident of having a second car. For the test day, it's still not comfortable. Of course, we would prefer to.

He repeats that winning Le Mans is not a target. They just want to be the fastest car on track, while it is running.

It's the target of a race to win. But we don't have to win Le Mans as a target this year. We want to be competitive. Our target is to be the fastest hybrid car. Then to be at the end of the race as the fastest, that is another step. It's not our target this year.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Acid09

You have to like the confidence that they expect to get in front of the Audis to begin with.

Would be nice for sure, even if it's just for a few hours...

http://www.lemans.org/en/news/hybrid...off-_6944.html also has a bold statement from Vasselon.

Then, which hybrid will win the Le Mans 17 June 2012? The answer could be in the comment of Pascal Vasselon, Toyota's technical director: "When you're a competitor you always go out to win. So yes: a hybrid will win this year since we have entered two cars and they are both hybrids!"

[gwyllion]

Audi and Toyota both believe that they have selected the best technology for electric energy storage.

Hisakake Murata believes that the super capacitor is the most effective way of storing energy rapidly before releasing it again: “We evaluated several solutions. Toyota has a great deal of experience in this field and the hybrid prototype we have developed for endurance racing is the fruit of a period of reflection that lasted six or seven years.”

Doctor Ullrich defended the flywheel-based solution favoured by Audi: “It was important to find the ideal compromise. We believe the flywheel solution is competitive and reliable. But it’s a good thing that there is a range of technologies in the sport.”

source: http://www.lemanslive.com/en/2012/05...ss-conference/

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

http://www.lemans.org/en/news/hybrid...off-_6944.html also has a bold statement from Vasselon.

Which directly contradicts the TMG statement that Audi will win 99%.

Anyways, even though it hasn't raced yet they seem to be convinced to have a very fast car. That's good news, even if the reliability is initially lacking... easier to make a quick car reliable than vice versa.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Which directly contradicts the TMG statement that Audi will win 99%.

Anyways, even though it hasn't raced yet they seem to be convinced to have a very fast car. That's good news, even if the reliability is initially lacking... easier to make a quick car reliable than vice versa.

Though if you recall, the first year the Audi's were very reliable, but not particularly on the pace with the R8R and R8C.

[gwyllion]

Mike wrote down some comments on the new aero on http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmay12.html

[Mal]

If they truly believe they have the fastest car then that perhaps explains why they dont want to show it before LM

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by Mal

If they truly believe they have the fastest car then that perhaps explains why they dont want to show it before LM

if they think to have the fastest car, meaning that they think to have the car that can reach the best top speed, i agree with them because the engine that they use is a high rev and in theory should have more than 50hp than the audi one, this is the ideal engine to reach top speed on the mulsanne; but if they think to have the best performant car, well or they are too much optimist or is just verbal pretaticts

[CTD]

Is it a good strategy to choose to run full speed and then retire, instead of running 80% and finish.
If you finish, you get a lot more data from the car + team experience, compared to let say a blow out after 16hours.

[gwyllion]

If they retire at Le Mans, then they have effectively lost the WEC already. Le Mans is double points and you have to get to the finish to score points.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by CTD

Is it a good strategy to choose to run full speed and then retire, instead of running 80% and finish.
If you finish, you get a lot more data from the car + team experience, compared to let say a blow out after 16hours.

there is no place anymore for strategy in actual endurance races that basicly have become a 24h sprint race, during the stint the driver must run with a qualifying rythm.

[lms]

what the hell is up with the high front fenders? they are spreading like cancer (and make the current cars a bit ugly imho). More air to the sides and less to the top and into the holes, so less drag? i dont know these things so im just guessing. On the other hand they were on the 01e as well.

[TF110]

He (Vasselon) only questions whether the car will stay out of troubles for the whole race. They have a good idea of where Audi is at. So if he says they intend to run faster than them, it means he feels the car is faster. Whether it's more reliable, or they don't get into incidents is to be seen. Plus they'll only have two cars to Audi's four. But anything can happen, Audi won last year with one car left. Any information on their one day test in France?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by lms

what the hell is up with the high front fenders? they are spreading like cancer (and make the current cars a bit ugly imho). More air to the sides and less to the top and into the holes, so less drag?

Yes, that is the main reason. Andy Thorby pioneered that design strategy with the Lister Storm LMP:

Andy Thorby adds some additional explanation to the purpose of the unusual fender shape:
"The front fenders were 'prow' shaped for two reasons. Firstly to reduce the lift by encouraging the air to flow round the sides rather than over the top, and secondly to improve the efficiency of the dive planes. Dive planes are usually very efficient, but need the highest velocity flow possible. The air accelerating around the fenders is considerably faster than the speed of the car."

source: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/listerstormlmp-4.html

[knighty]

Andys obviously getting some satisfaction from this, heres a comment from his LinkedIn post yesterday

"Latest #LMP1 cars are v interesting. Front fenders seem to be trending towards my Lister Storm LMP1!"

[gwyllion]

In http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99329 Yoshiaki Kinoshlta explains that Toyota wants to provide a customer hybrid system in the future.

"It is one of our aims [to provide hybrid to customers]," he said, when asked by AUTOSPORT. "But the current situation is that this system is not so cheap, so it may take another three or four years until we can provide our system to the customers, but for sure we want to."

In 2014 rules the hybrid systems will be allowed to recover more energy.

Kinoshlta said that he believed Toyota's system was already capable of producing double the power it is allowed to employ within the current regulations.

"Theoretically speaking we can recover twice as much energy, by our calculations, so if there is no limitation to recover the maximum energy we can do much more with our hybrid systems," he said. "So I clearly hope we can recover more energy in the future."

[CTD]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

there is no place anymore for strategy in actual endurance races that basicly have become a 24h sprint race, during the stint the driver must run with a qualifying rythm.

Someone didn't follow last years race!

Whenever you have the choice between speed and fuel consumption, there will be strategys.

However that was not my point. My point is that a virgin car at Le Mans is bound to get some sort of trouble, which only gets worse if driven full out. (just see Peugeot 2010, and Tom K's BMW in 1999, where unraced parts wrecks the race)

[TF110]

Maybe we will see Rebellion running future Toyota hybrid power? That'd be good. Can't wait to see how this thing goes.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by CTD

Someone didn't follow last years race!

Whenever you have the choice between speed and fuel consumption, there will be strategys.

However that was not my point. My point is that a virgin car at Le Mans is bound to get some sort of trouble, which only gets worse if driven full out. (just see Peugeot 2010, and Tom K's BMW in 1999, where unraced parts wrecks the race)

speaking the truth i follow le mans race since 2009 and yes, under some point of view i can agree with you, even if i think that is more a set-up choice than strategy. For strategy of race i mean other, and repeat actually in endurance scenario there isn't anymore a race strategy because the only one now is: push push push.