Coke Zero 400 Powered By Coca-Cola at Daytona International Speedway

[FIRE]

Denny Hamlin wins Nationwide race.
Full results


Paul Menard on pole in Cup race.
Full line up

3 DEI cars in top 8.
Good qualifying result for Nemechek, Said and Carpentier.
Montoya only 31st.

[gomick]

Nationwide Points after 19 rounds...

1. Clint Bowyer 2814
2. Carl Edwards 2621
3. Brad Keselowski 2596
4. David Reutimann 2576
5. Mike Bliss 2489
6. David Ragan 2463
7. Kyle Busch 2438
8. Mike Wallace 2279
9. David Stremme 2227
10. Jason Keller 2148

13. Marcos Ambrose 2063

*** Cup race just about to start

[gomick]

The #21 car is in the garage - qualified well with Jon Wood....

[Biggy G]

Great race, really enjoyed it. Jeff Gordonw as terribly unlucky, the slow restart stuffed him. I dont know why the crowd Booed Ky. Busch so heavily at the end, he did nothing wrong. If they wanted to boo someone it should have been Edwards.

JJ Yeley was doing a great job for Smoke until that last big wreck took him out

[StuiE]

Great race, got so close to wrecking big time before it eventually came, great finish, and well done by Nascar by not bringing out the yellow for Gordon's spin. If only it went the full distance it could have been even better...

[StuiE]

Oh yeh and Mike Wallace being taken out by Steven Wallace on the last turn in the Nationwide race, Mike WAS NOT happy, Rusty wasn't commentating unfortunately

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Biggy G

I dont know why the crowd Booed Ky. Busch so heavily at the end, he did nothing wrong.

He is the villain. He did some stupid stuff in previous years, which meant a lot of people decided he was Satan's spawn.

So, well, now he is the official villain of NASCAR (he seems to quite enjoy playing to it, too). Although, allegedly, there is increasingly less booing and more cheering. The boos still have it, but it seems there is a bit of a change: form like he has had this year has to start winning people over eventually.

[Biggy G]

That was just from what he's been up to in the previous years? I thought it had more to do with his actions during the race.

hehe, his actions in the past have always made me laugh, taking out his brother in the All Star race being a personal favourite.

[Gerben24]

It's been a while since I watched a Nascar race, but I just watched the highlights of yesterdays race. It was great! A shame for the #24, it could've been his first win!

[Dutton]

That was just from what he's been up to in the previous years? I thought it had more to do with his actions during the race.

Kyle behaved perfectly during the race. The boos were partially related to previous behvaiour, but also becaus he is his own man (i.e. he lives beyond the corporate).

Dutton, the insignificicant forum entity, supports Kyle in his endevours.

I am not a fan of his, but I totally respect that he is tremendously good at what he does.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by gomick

The #21 car is in the garage - qualified well with Jon Wood....

Why did they need to go to garage? According the commentator they did the same earlier this season.


Great last part of the race.

[StuiE]

To make adjustments, they were alot more agressive than any of the other non-top 35 cars, thinner oil, no alternator belt, lots of neg camber on the front etc, Larry Mac explained some of it before the race (you may not get the pre-race shw in your part of the world). Considering they did alot more drastic changes to get the car in the race, the 21 qualified pretty poorly.

This was why Allmendinger blew a tyre and went into the wall, too much camber, that they were going to adjust on the first stop (aswell as put the belts on) the #21 just had so much to do it took them completely out of the race.

[mattcat]

Originally Posted by StuiE

To make adjustments, they were alot more agressive than any of the other non-top 35 cars, thinner oil, no alternator belt, lots of neg camber on the front etc, Larry Mac explained some of it before the race (you may not get the pre-race shw in your part of the world). Considering they did alot more drastic changes to get the car in the race, the 21 qualified pretty poorly.

This was why Allmendinger blew a tyre and went into the wall, too much camber, that they were going to adjust on the first stop (aswell as put the belts on) the #21 just had so much to do it took them completely out of the race.

This confused me to no end during the race. I would like for someone to explain to me what is the point of qualifying for a race when you are just going to take yourself out of any contention for a decent finish after two laps. What does that accomplish? "Hey, we made the race, but knew that we would lose eight laps right off the bat." In fact, it is a disservice to the sport, and to another team which may have made the field and done something (or at least tried to) with their grid position. This wasn't a case where NASCAR needed a field filler, alot of legitimate teams went home, if I recall correctly. That type of issue needs to be evaluated by NASCAR. In my opinion, of course .

[Dutton]

Well, I would say if one goes out after a few laps then a mis-balanced comprise was found. The intention, presumably, is to do try and assure a spot in the race, then work on it in the race (hoping for early yellows, and such) to try and scrape a top-25 (or something). If you don't get in the race, then you cannot score anything. If you get in the race, then manage to get to the finish in one piece, then you are going to get a few points. This, in turn, can help you scrape yourself into the top-35. These bottom teams are not liable to have the performance to get a solid top-15, or what have you, regardless: thus, focus on qualy, then dial it back to race-trim in the race whilst focusing on getting to the finish. Given the top-35 scenario, it is really the only logical option by the back-end teams.

It isn't like the teams that focus to assure getting into the race do so with the intention of DNF-ing the race...

This whole dynamic you are of course aware of, therefore I am obviously missing what are you are getting at. Unless, of course, you are implying something along the lines of abolishing this top-35 stuff and making them all qualify on pace every weekend. If that is what you are getting at, well, I quite agree.

This top-35 scenario is an unnecessary and destructive force, IMO. Get rid of it (and the chase whilst we are at it), then, well, I would be quite a bit happier.

[mattcat]

Originally Posted by Dutton

This whole dynamic you are of course aware of, therefore I am obviously missing what are you are getting at. Unless, of course, you are implying something along the lines of abolishing this top-35 stuff and making them all qualify on pace every weekend. If that is what you are getting at, well, I quite agree.

Pretty much right on. This type of situation is caused by the top 35 rule, and it means that a team will sacrifice any chance at running competitively just to make the field and hope for a high rate of attrition. Because, theoretically, you could qualify eighth and end up going home. I personally don't care if Dale Jr. and Jeff Gordon and Kyle Busch and whomever else are in the race. If they can't qualify like everyone else, they should not start.

The rule just beats the back-end teams down further, makes it harder for them to run well enough to improve their programs, and leads to uncompetitive cars starting a race. I don't need to see 43 cars start a race if the last five are so far off base with their setup that fixing it will eliminate them from contention. Might as well just start 38.

If a team was qualifying for 43 spots, not 7 or 8, they would be less inclined to employ such a radical setup and maybe be content to start 34th with a car that could run 34th and rely on the mistakes of others to advance their position. The move by the 21 team just illustrates another fallacy of the top 35 rule, the likes of which you will only find in NASCAR.

[Dutton]

Yup. The top-35 rule creates massive, completely unnecessary problems. If we must have it, then at least start the next season with a clean slate: have straight-out qualifying for the initial races rather than relying on the previous year's finishing order. Hampering teams on the basis of a previous season just elevates the unreasonableness of the system to a new level of destructiveness: all it does is re-enforce the status quo, leaving even less room for a team to improve.

Presumably, it must be all about enhancing the long-term stability of established teams' financial planning. I cannot see any other logical reason for it.

It is all a bit minced, really.

[StuiE]

It's so that the big names are always racing, fans don't want to buy $100 tickets and then find out on race day that their favourite driver (Gordon, Kenseth, Stewart etc etc) hasn't qualified for the race, they aren't happy. Of if they're a Dale Jr fan and he misses it, they won't even watch the race, leaving the stands half empty

It's good in theory, but it then creates these problems we see, (although part of the problems with non-35 cars at Daytona was because it was an impound race, if it wasn't then you'd get bigger problems of teams spending huge (well, hugeER) amounts of money on qualifying engines etc..). I think a top 20 would be enough, leaving say, 27 cars going for 23 spots, instead of 11 cars going for 7 spots, same amount still goes home, but seems kinda 'fairer'.

I don't like the idea of a franchise system where there is the same 43 cars at every race, I think it is great that anyone (providing Nascar beleives the driver has enough experience on whatever type of track it is) can try and qualify for a race, James Hylton only just missed out on making the field for last years Daytona 500!

[Dutton]

I read an article a bit back in BusinessF1 that was covering the NASCAR team angle. From what I could gather, and I cannot remember all the fine details, was that the teams all wanted to go into the "team as franchise" system, but the Frances didn't want that, as it would mean a potential threat to their supremacy.

I had always assumed it was franchised, but according to that article it isn't.

I'm not sure it is all about the top drivers getting in. The top teams will always be able to qualify on pace. The risk of one of the top names not getting in are remarkably remote. Business planning, and such, however, like to have more concrete proof of the truth of the top cars always being in the race. I think it has more to do with that than the driver aspect.

[mattcat]

I know that NASCAR is protecting its business interest, and I agree that there are people who would not go to races were their favorite driver unable to qualify (doesn't mean I agree, just understand). What I don't understand is how the sport is supposed to grow with the current rules in place. How are new teams supposed to gain the experience necessary to build competitive operations? How are new drivers supposed to get seat time in Cup (which is far different from Busch or Trucks)? If you can't race, you can't learn.

Teams that cannot qualify for an event should not be competing in said event, regardless of whose name adorns the roof. If Jimmie Johnson crashes in qualifying and Boris Said runs a lap 15th fastest, why should Jimmie get that spot? I mean, I'm not naiive, I know why, but it's not right. In sprint car racing, you have to qualify for the event, Steve Kinser or not. That is the way it should be. I'm tired of seeing teams make decent runs and loading up their haulers on Friday evening.

I'm a Kyle Busch fan :cringes for fear of being struck down:, but I'll show up to the race whether he qualifies for it or not. If you're really only enough of a fan to show up when one particular driver makes the field, then you're really not a fan of the sport at all, and I'd rather you not be at the race anyway. It's a shame that NASCAR does not feel the same.

Rant concluded.