can i ask for advice

[aland]

folks

wee bit personal this, basically reading posts the official btcc forum from clowns that seem to love the contact of the btcc, I feel like wanting to knock their stupid blocks off as we all know contact isnt fun or anything

had to deal with my 1st big incident at knockhill yesterday in a legends race about 8 vehicles, we actually had to run down from post 4 to the bottom of the rallycross track car had rolled and other cars used as pinballs. at the time i was fine and carried on in a professional manner doing what I was told. only last night when I got home and the adrenaline stopped i actully felt a bit sick at what I saw, this morning when logging on i was so glad to hear that both drivers that got taken away in the ambulance were okay. is it normal to feel this way after your 1st big un.

best of it was I felt fine at the time, carried on as normal getting some food and water on board in the break we had when we were not required and dealing with stuff in the following races

thanks folks

[The Ferryman]

Originally Posted by aland

folks

wee bit personal this, basically reading posts the official btcc forum from clowns that seem to love the contact of the btcc, I feel like wanting to knock their stupid blocks off as we all know contact isnt fun or anything

had to deal with my 1st big incident at knockhill yesterday in a legends race about 8 vehicles, we actually had to run down from post 4 to the bottom of the rallycross track car had rolled and other cars used as pinballs. at the time i was fine and carried on in a professional manner doing what I was told. only last night when I got home and the adrenaline stopped i actully felt a bit sick at what I saw, this morning when logging on i was so glad to hear that both drivers that got taken away in the ambulance were okay. is it normal to feel this way after your 1st big un.

best of it was I felt fine at the time, carried on as normal getting some food and water on board in the break we had when we were not required and dealing with stuff in the following races

thanks folks

Perfectly normal reaction, well done for staying professional throughout the day. after all were only human and react to these things.

[Teletubby]

To be honest, it's so long ago I can't remember but I would say that anybody who says that they aren't bothered by a big incident is probably either fibbing or really should find something else to do!

So, on the basis you were fine until you thought about it, what you had was a normal human reaction.

Don't worry about it and look forward to the next meeting.

[flags]

my advice is..dont dwell on it....just think about the good job you + your fellow marshals did at the time.....your actions undoubtly helped the drivers involved......not easy i know..but put it behind you...you know you will do it all over again if required......enjoy the sport........byron

[Mark Mitchell]

Big man Alan for admitting how you feel!
You went through a whole host of emotions once the old BPM had settled down and had time to reflect.
You probably felt the way you did, not at what you had seen/done, but what might have been!

However, you are perfectly "Normal" in the way you feel.
In an ideal world, your Observer would have spoken with you afterwards, and the Chief Marshal would have been in touch. But, as you said, you felt OK at the time, so they were perhaps not to know.

If you feel like a chat, send me a PM or email and I'll happily listen.

[Dunc]

Originally Posted by aland

folks

wee bit personal this, basically reading posts the official btcc forum from clowns that seem to love the contact of the btcc, I feel like wanting to knock their stupid blocks off as we all know contact isnt fun or anything

had to deal with my 1st big incident at knockhill yesterday in a legends race about 8 vehicles, we actually had to run down from post 4 to the bottom of the rallycross track car had rolled and other cars used as pinballs. at the time i was fine and carried on in a professional manner doing what I was told. only last night when I got home and the adrenaline stopped i actully felt a bit sick at what I saw, this morning when logging on i was so glad to hear that both drivers that got taken away in the ambulance were okay. is it normal to feel this way after your 1st big un.

best of it was I felt fine at the time, carried on as normal getting some food and water on board in the break we had when we were not required and dealing with stuff in the following races

thanks folks

Alan we are only human atleast you got to the Legends without incident some of us fell in the mud 4 times (thing is I knew that area was very soft and as soon as I went over it I knew every time I got up down I went), but we did have an eventfull afternoon as you had the wee fire and we had the Lambo try and take us out on the outside. But there was a fatality remember the warning about Bamby and a Pheasant at Butchers ( I thought it was a joke), well a Formula Ford took out the Pheasant between us and post 6, Bamby did come and have a look in the morning but dissapeared back in the middle. I trust you will be making the trip for the Touring cars

[Stuart Hill]

Originally Posted by aland

folks
only last night when I got home and the adrenaline stopped i actully felt a bit sick at what I saw, this morning when logging on i was so glad to hear that both drivers that got taken away in the ambulance were okay. is it normal to feel this way after your 1st big un.

thanks folks

IMHO (and my own personal experience) YES, it is perfectly normal to "feel sick" after a high adrenaline rush. Even more so when this is combined with Shock (at the sight of) and Stress (because of dealing with) a "larger-than-seen-before" type of Incident.

Different people (trained or otherwise) will differ in their reactions to the same incidents. Some can lock away their emotions for days or months whilst others will not even notice any adverse effects, or even care. Neither is right or wrong but where the difference lies is how they coped at the time and what support do they receive afterwards.

You say that you acted professionally (I'm not questioning you at all) and that is exactly what training is all about. One goes to training days so that when the , one's actions become automatic and hopefully correct.

The one thing that training can NEVER fully reproduce is that sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach after everything has calmed down. Fortunately I have only ever felt that way once, when I was on-scene for a fatality @ Mallory Park. Whilst everything was done correctly at the scene (from what I could judge), I still had a major case of the shakes upon my return home and was unwell for many days later. Without doubt, with no offence to my close friends and especially my wife Jo, the one thing that most surprised me and at the same time helped me, was the support I received from fellow marshals (both known and strangers) over the following days and weeks. Their support and personal knowledge of similar events made me realise that what I was experiencing was by no means uncommon, said nothing about my abilities and was just the reactions of a normal human being ie: feeling shocked at a traumatic event. For their support I will be forever grateful and will always be there for any other marshal who ever feels the need to "have-a-chat" or who questions their feelings.

[HairyDJ]

Nowt wrong with that kind of reaction - indeed being able to come on here and post how you feel seems to be a good sign too.

Take care when you go back to the next event, especially if you are back on the same post, as your imagination may start to go into overdrive and the adrenaline rise at the tiniest of things.

I felt very much as you did after a first aid fatality 30 odd years ago - did my job and then the flashbacks kicked in later. Still not forgotten, but can be turned to your advantage and make you stronger.

Hold on to the knowledge that you now know that these folk came out of it better than your original concerns, and that you played a part in the team who made things good out of such an awful sight.

Keep talking and look forward, not back.

Cheers, David

[aland]

Originally Posted by Dunc

Alan we are only human atleast you got to the Legends without incident some of us fell in the mud 4 times (thing is I knew that area was very soft and as soon as I went over it I knew every time I got up down I went), but we did have an eventfull afternoon as you had the wee fire and we had the Lambo try and take us out on the outside. But there was a fatality remember the warning about Bamby and a Pheasant at Butchers ( I thought it was a joke), well a Formula Ford took out the Pheasant between us and post 6, Bamby did come and have a look in the morning but dissapeared back in the middle. I trust you will be making the trip for the Touring cars

cheeers mate, wont be at BTCC as I am on holiday but will be at smrc in sept, did see you doing a dive or 4 so decided to run on the gravel. it was eventful but I enjoyed working with the team, it was a good squad to be on post with

thanks for the support and friendship lads, it means a lot. I felt fine at the time but only when I got back home I started to think. but as you said I am only human

[deadsquirrel]

I don't know if it was a BARC event, but BARC have
http://www.barc.net/marshals/counselling.php

even if it wasn't barc, I'm sure these people would assist or direct you somewhere relevant.

The fact that you've recognised a reaction to the incident and been prepared to air that on our forum is good - no one is suggesting you need months of therapy, but some assistance with issues may only take a few minutes/hours.

Glad you were able to deal with the incident, and hope it acts as a learning experience for the future.

[The Fat Clerk]

Well done mate, human emotions are very funny things.
I've been involved in a fatality as a Competitor and had no problems, years later I was involved in another one as a Clerk and was very nearly physically sick.
It's a funny old world

[Motorsportgirli]

Hi Alan

I was spectating up there on Sunday and it was a bad one, but you all dealt with it professionally.

Again its good that you reconise it and can talk about it, You know where I am if you need a chat at any time

[b1ackcr0w]

Alan,

Haven't much to add to what's already been said, other than to reinforce it.

It is perfectly normal for you to have a delayed reaction after an extreme experience. It is perfectly normal to have physical symptoms. It is perfectly normal to be bothered for some time after the event by thoughts and recollections about the event.

My advice to you would be, keep talking to people about it until you get to a "happy" place about what happened. Take advantage of the help available. Realise that your experience this time will help you react better if there's a next time.

[Woolley]

Talk, talk and keep talking. The difficult thing is acknowledging to others that it's affected you, adn only then you discover it affects everyone. Personally, I find any big incident will bring back that feeling you get after your first 'big one', but having gone through it once you can recognise it for what it is and put it aside.

[Robin_D]

Hi Alan,

Yep, that first big one certainly gets the adrenaline flowing. I remember by first VERY big incident and being first on scene, finding there was nothing I could do by myself, except try and stop it from catching fire. Few years ago now though.

When we were back on post, we never recieved a de-briefing etc but we talked about it. It helped me a fair bit.

If you fancy a chat then pm me or email me

[danccooke]

Last season Dee and I had a very 'eventful' season where we had more than average big ones with us.
One of those once I knew the medics were with him I just had to walk away and have a smoke. I just needed to be away from the scene for a moment. (compared to some of the other incidents it was to all intents quite small)
Moments later, and it seems calous but on post we were all laughing at his Mocasins he was wearing to drive in.

Talk, laugh, natter. I think it is a sign of a healthy post that natters and chats about big ones after the incident for the rest of the day, season.
I think it is the what if's that could put you off, they are the ones you have to try and avoid and more look at how you responded, what you would do differently, if anything, next time.

enjoy your holiday come back refreshed and looking forward to the next meet.

[pauwilson]

Originally Posted by aland

i was so glad to hear that both drivers that got taken away in the ambulance were okay

The driver whos Legend got the roof chopped off was the 1st person to post about the accident on another northern forum only a few hours after it happened - problably still with the adrenalin flowing , followed up by a very nice post of thanks to all those involved in helping those hurt - well done that man.

Baptism of fire Alan eh, and that was only your 3rd meeting IIRC.

[blueflagger]

Aland, I tend to respond like you do and then break down a day or two afterward. Part of the reason I stayed involved after the first fatality I saw is that I discovered that my ability to do what needs to be done before breaking down is a good one for working the banks. I've seen some bad stuff in 30 years of racing but A) the good stuff outweighs the bad by far and B) the ability to help in a tough situation is an important skill for marshals to have.

Good on you for performing so well and good on you for recognizing and asking about your reaction afterwards. Please continue to marshal. You will have far more good events than bad ones.

[alexhall]

I felt quite sick for the rest of the day after my first biggy - what helped me was knowing I had a good team of people around me to talk to and look out for each other for the rest of the meeting. Talking definately helps!

[Dan Friel]

I think it's all been said in the above. After my first "serious incident" I was a wreck for a week. Until I sat down with a marshal (who was also present) and we chatted it all through. That had the most incredible effect. I can still remember everything about it though.. but following incidents have been much easier to deal with.

Hope you get back on the bank soon.

[CombeMarshal]

i guess it's normal for normal people to feel like that!
My First BIG one was on my first day on post At Combe in the Gt race, When the F3/GT's use to visit, So I guess I just then assumed thats normal and anything less is what catches you by surprise, as it were!
I think then on the next day of the meeting we had another huge one at tower again, I seem to attract them, must be made of pork pies!

If your not feeling to good at the circuit be sure to let your post chief know so they can get you checked out, if they don't, which I can never think would happen then go to the medical centre yourself

BUT why the first paragraph of your first post, seems to have nothing to do with the rest of it??

Everyone that Marshals, Goes to watch, or races in BTCC knows what goes on that's why we hate/love it!

[Roger Lovelock]

Originally Posted by aland

folks

i actully felt a bit sick at what I saw, this morning when logging on i was so glad to hear that both drivers that got taken away in the ambulance were okay. is it normal to feel this way after your 1st big un.

best of it was I felt fine at the time, carried on as normal getting some food and water on board in the break we had when we were not required and dealing with stuff in the following races

thanks folks

That is a normal reaction and as somebody else has said your Observer should try to keep in touch after such an incident as should the organising club. I know I was the Observer at Post 19 Thruxton for the F3/Gt meeting when we had a major incident. I was advised by the Cheif Marshal to get everones contact numbers to make sure they were alright, and where to find contact numbers if any of the team needed help. I also found that it helps to talk with others involved in the incident and other marshals. Keep smiling

[CombeMarshal]

Sorry, mis-read you first paragraph there, to late to edit my post now though!

[Piglet]

If I recall correctly BARC offer a counselling service to marshals who are involved in incidents. I'm not sure if any of the other clubs do, I think it would be a useful add on to the BMMC if it's not already offered.

[aland]

Originally Posted by pauwilson

Baptism of fire Alan eh, and that was only your 3rd meeting IIRC.

not half Paul, then again I have had 3 very good IO's and obs to work with

to the rest of you a massive thanks for the posts of support, friendship and understanding it means a heck of a lot to me, last night when I wrote the 1st post I just couldnt understand how I was feeling that way as that is why I got involved in the 1st place to graft and do my bit, I jsut wanted to get it off my chest with people that have been there and bought the t-shirt, I do realise now that as most of you said I am human and in the cold light of the day after the event it does feel very different to when you are trackside working

Seeing the incident unfold will not stop me from going to KH and possibly other tracks as I realise now what a fantastic crew the british motorsport marshal is and I am proud to be part of that now, as I said on another forum that fence between the speccy area and the bank may only be a few mm wide but in reality is a mile wide as the teamwork, friendship and support is something else

thanks to all of you and if I do come across you the is on me