Ferrari World Contructors Champion

henk4 · 3 Nov 2008, 05:00 (Ref:2326632)

In all the euphoria about Hamilton this thread was not there as yet although the WCC is of more importance for the teams thand the WDC
Congrats to what then was obviously the best car in 2008 season...

FPV GTHO · 3 Nov 2008, 05:13 (Ref:2326634)

Was it the best car or the best lineup? Kovalainen didnt really make it hard for Ferrari.

Congrats nevertheless

dsg · 3 Nov 2008, 06:43 (Ref:2326653)

I'm not sure the Ferrari was the best car either but congratulations as well.

Kempi · 3 Nov 2008, 06:52 (Ref:2326656)

It was the fastest car, when the conditions were right. I had the feeling, that the McLaren was the better overall car, though. Kovalainen just didn't produce (except for his lone win in Hungary which was gifted to him by the engine blower of Massa's Ferrari [without which Massa would have been WDC]).

climb · 3 Nov 2008, 07:14 (Ref:2326666)

Given what Ferrari did this year , I think it's the most undeserved title ever.

Massa would have won the WDC, hadn't Ferrari made the blunders we saw at Budapest and Singapore, or just one of them.

**Peter Mallett** · 3 Nov 2008, 07:19 (Ref:2326672)

But likewise if Massa or Kimi hadn't dropped the car on a few occasions they wouldn't need to worry about those errors.

You can say those things about all of them, but the fact remains, Ferrari had better overall consistency than their rivals, which I guess is what the WCC is about after all.

So congratulations to Ferrari.

Teretonga · 3 Nov 2008, 07:31 (Ref:2326680)

Quote:

Originally Posted by climb

Given what Ferrari did this year , I think it's the most undeserved title ever.

Massa would have won the WDC, hadn't Ferrari made the blunders we saw at Budapest and Singapore, or just one of them.

Doesn't work like that climb.
I think it was deserved.

The incidents where Felipe lost points were team decisions and team failures.
Furthermore the title would have been decided in Hamiltons favour in China if the FIA hadn't given Hamilton the penalties at Spa and Japan.

Hamilton's wins in China and at Siverstone were exemplary. Felipe never had a win like that.

Yes he lost races in Singapore and at Budapest because of team failures but if the FIA had been consisten the'd have lost Valencia too.
So don't count them. The team failed on those occasions.

We all have our favourites and that can colour our opinions and feelings about situations, but we still need to step back and look at things a little more objectively.
Whatever ones personal opinion about Hamilton and McLaren, Hamilton can drive. Felipe has become a lot more consistent this year and beating Kimi was something no one expected. But Hamiltons great drives were impeccable. Over the year the Ferrari was still the better car, a fact reflected in the constructors points, so Felipe always had great equipment. It just wasn't quite enough.

He lost it by the one point...but Hamilton lost it the same way last year when Mclaren had the best equipment (They'd have won the constructors last year but for the 'spygate' nonsense.)
Can Felipe bounce back in 2009 like Hamilton did in 2008?

snowen250 · 3 Nov 2008, 07:54 (Ref:2326684)

I think Massa's drive in Brazil was pretty exemplory actually..............
But overall you gotta say the cars were pretty equal, no one ran away with it. But Kovi did make it a bit easy...

climb · 3 Nov 2008, 08:52 (Ref:2326722)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Doesn't work like that climb.
I think it was deserved.

The incidents where Felipe lost points were team decisions and team failures.
Furthermore the title would have been decided in Hamiltons favour in China if the FIA hadn't given Hamilton the penalties at Spa and Japan.

I'm talking about the situations where the driver loses points because of a team blunder, what happened because of official decisions is not down to the team. I'm not discussing here whether Lewis deserved the WDC or not, but if Ferrari deserve the WCC; and here's my conclusion, to follow your reasoning: Hadn't Ferrari made the blunders we kno, Massa would have "maybe undeservedly" won the WDC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Hamilton's wins in China and at Siverstone were exemplary. Felipe never had a win like that.if the FIA hadn't given Hamilton the penalties at Spa and Japan.

Provided, I repeat, this is off topic here, did you watch the race yesterday?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Yes he lost races in Singapore and at Budapest because of team failures but if the FIA had been consisten the'd have lost Valencia too.
So don't count them. The team failed on those occasions.

ON the contrary, you comfirm my point: Not only did Massa lose point due to Ferrrari's mistakes, but he also won despite them: more reasons to explain why Ferrari 2008 WCC was NOT deserved

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

We all have our favourites and that can colour our opinions and feelings about situations, but we still need to step back and look at things a little more objectively.
Whatever ones personal opinion about Hamilton and McLaren, Hamilton can drive. Felipe has become a lot more consistent this year and beating Kimi was something no one expected. But Hamiltons great drives were impeccable. Over the year the Ferrari was still the better car, a fact reflected in the constructors points, so Felipe always had great equipment. It just wasn't quite enough.

Respectable points,but once again , off topic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

He lost it by the one point...but Hamilton lost it the same way last year when Mclaren had the best equipment (They'd have won the constructors last year but for the 'spygate' nonsense.)
..,.

Once more you confirm my point! Last year Lewis lost by one point, heavily penalised by the team mistakes: the mismanagement of the duel with Alonso, and strategy blunders in the final races. That is why, spygate or not, Macs deserved to lose the WCC.

This year the contrary happened IMHO.

I'm not saying Massa deserved the WDC more than Lewis; but only that he surely deserved the WDC more than Ferrari deserved the WCC

Graz · 3 Nov 2008, 08:57 (Ref:2326726)

Does anyone other than the teams really care about the Constructors Championship? I'm sure we could name all the champion drivers there have ever been but I doubt anyone will be saying , "wow, do you remember when McLaren lost the Constructors in the last race of whatever year when..."

Regardless of F1 being a 'Team' sport, really it's not. All the drivers drive for themselves - I couldn't believe how chatty Kimi was in the post race press conference but then I guess he was delighted Massa hadn't won the title.

Maybe I'm a cynic

Pete_58 · 3 Nov 2008, 09:17 (Ref:2326732)

Congratulations to Ferrari on the WCC. Cant helpf eeling that Heikki didnt help McLarens title bid, but hey, seasons over now. Roll on '09!!

Alex Hodgkinson · 3 Nov 2008, 10:40 (Ref:2326804)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Hamilton's wins in China and at Siverstone were exemplary. Felipe never had a win like that.

Valencia,
Interlagos,

Singapore and Hungary were both going that way until problems prevailed..

ralf fan · 3 Nov 2008, 12:19 (Ref:2326897)

I know which team is celebrating the most at this moment. And it isn't Ferrari. The constructors is a nice topping but the cake has always been and always will be the drivers' title. Well done to Ferrari anyway.

Knowlesy · 3 Nov 2008, 12:41 (Ref:2326911)

I think Ferrari deserved this WCC. They did make a simply astonishing car. It looked so easy to drive and made Massa look perhaps better than he really is.

I believe if Kimi was motivated, he would have romped to the title.

Yes, the team made mistakes but so did McLaren.

Marbot · 3 Nov 2008, 12:43 (Ref:2326913)

Yes,well done to Ferrari! History will show that they had the best car... or the best drivers...or something.

Lotusonpole · 3 Nov 2008, 12:49 (Ref:2326921)

Well done and congratulations to Ferrari.
They got the most points and therefore deserve it.

Ferrari WCC, LH WDC. Fair enough.

Cheers
Peter

ralf fan · 3 Nov 2008, 13:00 (Ref:2326929)

The Ferrari wasn't astronomically better than Mclaren. The problem for them was that they probably had the fastest car but it was fast at certain points during the race weekends not throughout. And then there were some tracks where they were all at sea. I'd say both chassis over the entire season were equal.

climb · 3 Nov 2008, 13:01 (Ref:2326932)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

...

Yes, the team made mistakes but so did McLaren.

There are mistakes and mistakes, Ferrari made some really unworthy for a WCC winner

climb · 3 Nov 2008, 13:02 (Ref:2326933)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralf fan

The Ferrari wasn't astronomically better than Mclaren. The problem for them was that they probably had the fastest car but it was fast at certain points during the race weekends not throughout. And then there were some tracks where they were all at sea. I'd say both chassis over the entire season were equal.

Agreed

Knowlesy · 3 Nov 2008, 13:09 (Ref:2326940)

I honestly feel (and I know I'll be laughed off the forum for suggesting this) that the McLaren was closer to the BMW in terms of pace.

Look at the performances of Kovalainen. He finished seventh in the championship. I know he had some bad luck, but there were days he couldn't live with BMW's and suchlike. How many podiums did he get? Two or three? If the McLaren was worthy of WCC status, he'd have got more than that.

Very rarely was the McLaren way ahead and, when it was, it was only in Lewis' hands. There were races where the Ferrari's were scary quick. Singapore, Fuji, France, Spain, Malaysia, Turkey. Even a woeful Kimi looked awake on occasion in it! They did make a lot of blunders, drivers and team, but they still deserve it overall.

If we're going to award it based on errors, then BMW-Sauber should have it!

**Bononi** · 3 Nov 2008, 14:30 (Ref:2327012)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Hamilton's wins in China and at Siverstone were exemplary. Felipe never had a win like that.

I think you're dead wrong with that statement, say what you want but Felipe actually had better wins than Hamilton.

Super Hans · 3 Nov 2008, 14:47 (Ref:2327031)

Congratulations Ferrari. There's no point discussing who deserved it. Ferrari are the constructors champions because they scored the most points. End of story.

**Bononi** · 3 Nov 2008, 15:14 (Ref:2327058)

Agreed, period.

steve_r · 3 Nov 2008, 15:56 (Ref:2327081)

The Ferrari pit certainly celebrated their contructers title with gusto as Massa crossed the line!

Teretonga · 3 Nov 2008, 18:45 (Ref:2327208)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

Valencia,
Interlagos,

Singapore and Hungary were both going that way until problems prevailed..

It goes back to the point I already made.
Valencia was a track very difficult to pass on, a feat acknowledged by all. Felipe had everyones measure though until the fuel stop. Thats a team problem.

Interlagos-he had two of the worlds best drivers behind him but both had punblicly acknowledged they would do what they could to help him win the title so he had nothing to fear from them. They weren't going to attack him.
Yes they were great drives but not in the same class as the performances at Silverstone, or Hockenheim.

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