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15 Oct 2012, 18:55 (Ref:3152461) | #1 | ||
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Weber DCOE Internal return springs.
For the last two races I've been having problems with the throttle sticking open on my triple Weber set-up. The first time was caused by a newish cable somehow twisting inside and jamming the inner cable. I had a similar problem at Snetterton on Saturday but the cables seem fine although one or more of the carbs internal springs have broken.
Does anyone do away with these springs and fit an external one, just like the scroots insist on or should I replace the broken springs? Problem is with three internal springs and three external plus one of the throttle linkage the pedal is very heavy to push down. |
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15 Oct 2012, 20:09 (Ref:3152495) | #2 | ||
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I've always discarded the internal return springs on DCOE Webers, on the basis that if they break (and they do) the remnants can jam the throttle.
No need to do this on a DHLA Dell'orto, as the spring is external to the carb body, and broken bits can fall out of the way. |
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15 Oct 2012, 22:15 (Ref:3152552) | #3 | ||
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I agree with Clive I've always left them out and used external springs.
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Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
17 Oct 2012, 00:08 (Ref:3153122) | #4 | ||
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remove them !
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17 Oct 2012, 18:03 (Ref:3153464) | #5 | |
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I've always thought it best to remove the internal springs, however, I do know of someone who failed scutineering for this at a meeting because the scrut disconnected the external springs and then operated the linkage. Obviously the throttle stayed open, the scrut then failed the car deeming the internal springs/carburettor as faulty and unsafe. I wasn't there at the time so I don't know all the story but I understand the chief scrut backed the scruts decision so my aquaintance had to go borrow some springs off a car from the car park.
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CSCC Swinging Sixties #128 Red/Black Mustang |
17 Oct 2012, 18:22 (Ref:3153472) | #6 | ||
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Probably removed the springs from the throttle linkage. Although the majority are fitted with two springs these do not comply with the blue book requirements as they are not acting directly on the throttle spindle. Answer is to fit two external springs to the end of the spindles. Definately throw away the internal springs as failure usually results in throttle jammed open. Been there got the teeshirt.
Pete Richards |
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17 Oct 2012, 18:32 (Ref:3153477) | #7 | ||
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I don't see how a scroot can fail on internal springs.
Blue book rule 5.4.2. Be equipped with a positive method of throttle closing by means of external spring/springs so that in the event of failure of any part of the throttle linkage the throttle(s) are sprung closed. So as long as external spring/springs are fitted there can't be a problem. I've just removed the offending item and I see It's quite a heavy spring so using only the three external springs I use (4 including the one on the cable itself) will make the throttle pedal quite light. |
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18 Oct 2012, 20:55 (Ref:3154052) | #8 | |||
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Quote:
is for our 6 cylinder 3 Weber carb motors, but we can sell you just the arm if you like as the arm silver solders to your washer / arm / whatever, the long hole is too stiff, the short hole just right with MGB springs |
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20 Oct 2012, 09:45 (Ref:3154754) | #9 | |||
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Quote:
Those that remove the internal springs to you discard the H collar that holds the top of the spring or leave it in? |
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20 Oct 2012, 10:31 (Ref:3154775) | #10 | |||
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Quote:
From Wikipedia' Under Solder Soldering performed using alloys with melting point above 450 °C (840 °F) is called 'hard soldering', 'silver soldering' or brazing. Hard solder Hard solders are used for brazing, and melt at higher temperatures. Alloys of copper with either zinc or silver are the most common. In silversmithing or jewelry making, special hard solders are used that will pass away assay. They contain a high proportion of the metal being soldered and lead is not used in these alloys. These solders vary in hardness, designated as "enameling", "hard", "medium" and "easy". Enameling solder has a high melting point, close to that of the material itself, to prevent the joint desoldering during firing in the enameling process. The remaining solder types are used in decreasing order of hardness during the process of making an item, to prevent a previously soldered seam or joint desoldering while additional sites are soldered. Easy solder is also often used for repair work for the same reason. Flux or rouge is also used to prevent joints from desoldering. Silver solder is also used in manufacturing to join metal parts that cannot be welded. The alloys used for these purposes contain a high proportion of silver (up to 40%), and may also contain cadmium.' No silver solder sold in the UK contains cadmium as it got banned, silver solders chemical compounds are altered slightly because of this |
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24 Oct 2012, 07:26 (Ref:3156866) | #11 | |
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the genuine weber rebuild kits supply new springs, I use them, they break because they're old and knackered, they wear out and snap at the end were they hook onto the butterfly spindle.
we decided ( on the rollers one time) to only use an 'aesthetically pleasing' external spring to satisfy scrutes, and offer a secondary closure method because a large spring over loads the spindle and pulls on the bearing, and twists the shaft, which alters the butterfly positions, thats sapping power in my book. |
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24 Oct 2012, 16:54 (Ref:3157091) | #12 | |||
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Quote:
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24 Oct 2012, 22:09 (Ref:3157231) | #13 | |
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which makes perfect sense. and also highlights how crap most of the linkage kits are!
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