[Team] How to make $$ in Formula one?

[ace007]

Can you make money buying a dying team like HRT, revamp it and sell it for 100M?

[mrfizz]

Probably. If you spent 200M first, that is. Many moons ago somebody is quoted as saying that the best way of making a small fortune in F1 is to start with a big one. Or something like that.

[ace007]

How to make a million? By starting with a billion...

[bella]

i think only if you were able to use elements from a existing business - in a similar way to how the teams were set up in the first place, for example parts of the composite business, the machining business, etc. and then either sell it on as a massive multi-purpose business or split it up into each individual part.

particularly how hrt did it first, subcontracting their design work out to dallara, it's a shame that never quite worked out because i think in the long term it's a good way of doing it.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by ace007

Can you make money buying a dying team like HRT, revamp it and sell it for 100M?

Certainly a worldwide corporation can do that.

[davyboy]

The way to make money in F1 is to get married to BE, making sure you don't sign any form of pre-nup !

[b1ackcr0w]

I think you have to look at Red bull for the answer. I don't think it is possible as a standalone enterprise. But if you already have a strong, cash rich brand that needs the ultimate in marketing reinforcement, take it on as a heavy duty loss leader.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by ace007

How to make a million? By starting with a billion...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

I think you have to look at Red bull for the answer. I don't think it is possible as a standalone enterprise. But if you already have a strong, cash rich brand that needs the ultimate in marketing reinforcement, take it on as a heavy duty loss leader.

Probably the only way to justify F1 expenditure.

Be quite interestng to see what RBR could actually sell the whole racing operation for.
Was a unique and interesting approach, when you see how Marlboro went about using F1 as a marketing tool.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

Was a unique and interesting approach, when you see how Marlboro went about using F1 as a marketing tool.

And still do. sssshhhhhh!

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

I think you have to look at Red bull for the answer. I don't think it is possible as a standalone enterprise. But if you already have a strong, cash rich brand that needs the ultimate in marketing reinforcement, take it on as a heavy duty loss leader.

Never ceases to amaze me how much money Red Bull pushes in to sports. I have no idea whether they get the money back in increased sales, but I think the populace should be grateful at the things Red Bull have done in this area.

Wikipedia has a list of what they actual do - it's impressive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull#Team_ownerships

And that doesn't include Baumgartner, the man with the biggest testicles in the world. Pretty sure they got their money's worth there.

[BackmarkerUK]

Eddie Jordan presumably made money from the sale of Jordan to Alex Shnaider, though that came off the back of 14 years of continuous investment, and 2005 was a very different time, Jordan were an established competitive team etc.

At the moment it's a buyers market, given that there are plenty of teams needing investment or looking to sell (HRT is definitely for sale, Toro Rosso and Force India would give serious consideration to any offer, and Sauber and Lotus are also available to someone with enough money, in my opinion), but very few people or organisations with the money and inclination to buy an F1 team.

If/when manufacturers are looking to get back into F1, there are a very limited number of teams available to them, so there will be competition for buying out existing teams. Anyone buying HRT could do so with the expectation that when the car industry (and wider economy) recovers there will be potential buyers for teams looking to pay over the odds merely to secure a place in F1. But until then you've go to commit to the costs of operating an F1 team for probably at least the next two years.

So if a buyer could be found who could run the team on a shoestring budget, outsourcing as much as is economically possible, selling seats to the highest bidder who qualifies for a super license, and essentially exist in order to keep the entry position nailed down, then perhaps there is the prospect of a buyer coming along. That said, any buyer will look at the teams with facilities in place first and foremost.

[bella]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Never ceases to amaze me how much money Red Bull pushes in to sports. I have no idea whether they get the money back in increased sales, but I think the populace should be grateful at the things Red Bull have done in this area.

exactly. isn't it amazing that one massive company can do so many things that support so many sports on the one hand but so many do so little on the other? granted, a massive proportion of the money is offset against tax, and is simply money that they either spend, or hand over to the government.

i like them as a company because rarely do they use scantily clad ladies to promote their product. instead, they use athletes and sports and people willing to think outside the box. healthy, responsible role models.

i would imagine that without the early heavy promotion of red bull within extreme sports - thus making it cool for ever more - they would have never been able to achieve their current world domination.

/off topic slightly

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by bella

exactly. isn't it amazing that one massive company can do so many things that support so many sports on the one hand but so many do so little on the other? granted, a massive proportion of the money is offset against tax, and is simply money that they either spend, or hand over to the government.

I'd rather see tax avoidance take on the form that Red Bull use than the form used by Amazon, Starbucks and the like - at least they're 'giving something back' (albeit in it's very loosest form).

Originally Posted by bella

instead, they use athletes and sports and people willing to think outside the box. healthy, responsible role models.

"Think outside the box"???? Some of the people they support haven't even heard of the box. Baumgartner? Nutcase. Pure and simple. I fully approve though Whenever you hear about some loon doing who knows what daft/insane activity you always expect to see a Red Bull logo slapped on the side of their head these days

[bella]

i have to disagree with you there, mr bert, sir.

baumgartner's got a box. he tied it to the bottom of a giant balloon, went up into space, opened the door and jumped out of it

[pauln]

bella, are you suggesting he wasn't thinking once he was out of the box?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by bella

i have to disagree with you there, mr bert, sir.

baumgartner's got a box. he tied it to the bottom of a giant balloon, went up into space, opened the door and jumped out of it

Fair point Actually - what happened to that box? After he jumped out it must have come down too.

[bella]

Originally Posted by pauln

bella, are you suggesting he wasn't thinking once he was out of the box?

wow, this escalated quickly

i think he clearly wasn't thinking inside the box because if he was he would have immediately removed himself from the box and declared himself insane. thus, the only thinking he did was outside the box.

when he's in the box and the lid was closed, did he even exist?

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Fair point Actually - what happened to that box? After he jumped out it must have come down too.

they disconnected the box a while after he jumped out of it, and it sort of... parachuted down itself. either that or someone's got one hell of a new garden ornament

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by bella

i have to disagree with you there, mr bert, sir.

baumgartner's got a box. he tied it to the bottom of a giant balloon, went up into space, opened the door and jumped out of it

Sorry to be pedantic, but he didn't go in to space, despite all the 'space dive headlines. He was at about 39km when he jumped (which is still really really high), but the official definition of space is 100km, so he was only just over a third of the way there.

Now, a real space dive will require a rocket launch platform, like something from Armadillo Aerospace, or Masten Space Systems. They are not quite there yet, but it's not long before they will get their VTVL rockets to 100km.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Now, a real space dive will require a rocket launch platform, like something from Armadillo Aerospace, or Masten Space Systems. They are not quite there yet, but it's not long before they will get their VTVL rockets to 100km.

But that wouldn't really be any use would it? If he did go into actual space as opposed to just "****ing hell that's high" he'd jump out of his capsule thingy and just float about looking embarrassed - what with there not being any gravity in space and all that. If by some bizarre turn of events he did manage to get back into the atmosphere he'd presumably burn up on re-entry anyway - an impressive way to go I'll admit but one that does preclude doing any further daft stunts in the future.

I think it's fair to say this thread has now wandered slightly off topic

[BackmarkerUK]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

But that wouldn't really be any use would it? If he did go into actual space as opposed to just "****ing hell that's high" he'd jump out of his capsule thingy and just float about looking embarrassed - what with there not being any gravity in space and all that. If by some bizarre turn of events he did manage to get back into the atmosphere he'd presumably burn up on re-entry anyway - an impressive way to go I'll admit but one that does preclude doing any further daft stunts in the future.

If there wasn't any gravity in space the moon would go shooting off wherever it pleased instead of being nicely tethered in place by the pull of the Earth. The main problems with jumping from space (other than the lack of vacuum asphyxiating and freezing you) would be burning up when he entered the Earth's atmosphere.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by BackmarkerUK

If there wasn't any gravity in space the moon would go shooting off wherever it pleased instead of being nicely tethered in place by the pull of the Earth.

Fair point - bad choice of words on my part I think the effect is the same though - not plummeting to earth.

[BackmarkerUK]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Fair point - bad choice of words on my part I think the effect is the same though - not plummeting to earth.

Given that there's no air resistance in space, he would actually plummet faster!

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Fair point - bad choice of words on my part I think the effect is the same though - not plummeting to earth.

At 100km there isn't significantly less gravity than on the ground and you surely will plummet to earth, the only way to avoid it is to travel parallel to the surface at about 17500 mph then your fall will be around the earth and you will never land, if you're inside a tin can moving at the same speed you can film yourself "floating", which is what you are thinking of.

When you see a huge rocket launching people into space only a relatively small potion of the fuel and energy is there to lift the spacecraft to the required height, most of it is used to accelerate to the required 17500 mph horizontally, without that you are coming straight back down again.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

without that you are coming straight back down again.

At least until you burn up