FRenault Thruxton: Bell & Watts Excluded!!!

Jonny Apex · 7 May 2002, 12:02 (Ref:279367)

Robert Bell and Danny Watts have been excluded from first and second in yesterday's Formula Renault race at Thruxton.

Mark McLoughlin has been declared winner and is now the leader of the championship.

Full story www.renaultsport.co.uk

Clyde Ankle · 7 May 2002, 12:44 (Ref:279406)

I see that Katherine Legge has also been excluded. Was it for the same reason? (being in the same team as Danny Watts).

**bella** · 7 May 2002, 12:58 (Ref:279419)

whaaaa!!
it'd be interesting to know what the things were that they didn't comply with.

BennyBoy1978 · 7 May 2002, 13:22 (Ref:279441)

yeah can anyone shed any light on that?

Paul Rayner · 7 May 2002, 16:03 (Ref:279535)

Full report at www.singleseaters.co.uk

Queenie · 8 May 2002, 17:56 (Ref:280471)

Is there any more news?
From what I've heard it seems their exclusion waas very harsh as the seals that were missing don't actually make any difference to performance or safety.

Paul Rayner · 8 May 2002, 19:26 (Ref:280527)

What more news do you want to know? I've heard the same.

Sato san · 8 May 2002, 20:23 (Ref:280547)

And Danny Watts said he just wanted consistent points to keep him on track for the championship !!...ooops.

Ian Sowman · 8 May 2002, 23:31 (Ref:280637)

Whether the seals aid performance or not, rules are rules and they've got to be stuck to. No excuses, even if some might question whether the rule is worthwhile...

Ian

Ian-S · 8 May 2002, 23:40 (Ref:280638)

Quote:

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
Whether the seals aid performance or not, rules are rules and they've got to be stuck to. No excuses, even if some might question whether the rule is worthwhile...

Ian

Ivhave to learn to type faster

Was just about to say the same as you, rules are rules, and unless they've tried it, do they actually know that it doesn't aid performance?

Clyde Ankle · 9 May 2002, 07:54 (Ref:280745)

Quote from www.singleseaters.co.uk

"Over time these seals become worn and can break up".

You have to ask the following questions-

1. Over what time period does this happen?
2. How often are they checked/replaced?
3. When were these particular seals last checked?

Surely it is the responsibility of the teams to ensure the legality of the car!

Scrutineers are not stupid!

Jonny Apex · 9 May 2002, 08:37 (Ref:280781)

Very well said, Clyde Ankle and Ian-S. The scrutineers have found two cars that did not comform with the technical regulations and have acted accordingly.

We all have our favourites (and I think Bell and Watts are two of the finest out there) but rules are rules. The whole point of a single make category is that all the cars should be EQUAL. End of it!

Queenie: from what I've heard, missing seals can make a difference to performance. So it all depends on who you've been listening to.

I think it's best, however, that the technical experts are allowed to get on with their jobs. As Clyde Ankle says, they are not stupid.

Tallie · 9 May 2002, 12:32 (Ref:280900)

'over time these seals become worn and can break up'... ???

were they not scrutineered on the saturday?
fortec and motorworld are both experienced teams, and should have known their cars were missing seals... blaitant cheating....?

**bella** · 9 May 2002, 13:44 (Ref:280980)

i don't know enough about the seals in question, but i do know that if it's an accidental problem we'll see a lot more of it happening. if it's not, then it's a one-off, because those who are gaining an advantage (less friction?) now know that the powers that be are wise to this happening.

GM Man · 9 May 2002, 15:01 (Ref:281012)

There is to much coincident if the 1 and 2 in a competetive field happend to get caught...

BennyBoy1978 · 9 May 2002, 16:09 (Ref:281076)

surely there must be some sort of advantage gain in this or they wouldn't have setup a rule to stop it?

**bella** · 9 May 2002, 16:12 (Ref:281079)

assuming they checked 3rd too? surely if one team can get it sorted, then the rest can?

i don't know if there is strictly a rule to stop it.

Paul Rayner · 9 May 2002, 18:51 (Ref:281201)

Quote:

Originally posted by BennyBoy1978
surely there must be some sort of advantage gain in this or they wouldn't have setup a rule to stop it?

As has been said, rules are rules, and they are there to maintain factors whether they appear to have an advantage or not.

Every time a scrutineer checks over a car, they can't decide whether anything illegal gains an advantage or not, it's either legal in their opinion or it's not. Whether a decision taken by them is fair, however, is a different argument.

Speedworx · 9 May 2002, 19:32 (Ref:281241)

Makes championship a little more interesting.

Sato san · 9 May 2002, 19:36 (Ref:281244)

Anyway , the best thing for the scrutineers to do is to come down hard on teams that break the rules . That way , no other teams can be tempted to think about breaking the rules . It's early on in the season , which makes it the right time to stamp out rule breaking . Even if it does affect drivers we all like .

**gomick** · 10 May 2002, 08:24 (Ref:281559)

spewing will davison was involved in an incident - he would have won

Clyde Ankle · 10 May 2002, 08:46 (Ref:281589)

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Rayner

Whether a decision taken by them is fair, however, is a different argument.

The test of whether the decision is fair is that it should be applied to everyone. In this instance were there any other cars checked?

The new FRenault is a great car and a great championship evidenced by its popularity and its ability to attract top drivers. It cannot be allowed to get a dubious reputation as has been the case in other championships which have claimed to have equal equipment.

I think it's good that this situation has arisen this early in the championship, it clears the air.

Jonny Apex · 10 May 2002, 09:02 (Ref:281606)

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Rayner

Whether a decision taken by them is fair, however, is a different argument.

We all think it's 'unfair' when it affects a favourite driver. However, favouritsm undoubtedly blinkers people's views for when a rival is 'caught' for the same thing then it is undoubtedly fair.

Nothing wrong in fighting a friend's corner, though.

BennyBoy1978 · 10 May 2002, 09:29 (Ref:281635)

exactly! But theres no such thing as an unfair rule if its administered properly

Paul Rayner · 10 May 2002, 14:32 (Ref:281959)

Couldn't agree more, BennyBoy. My point on fairness of a rule was supposed to be a general thought on interpretation of technical rules. In the past we've seen exclusions in F1. Sometimes it's clear black and white, a team appeals and gets blasted for it. However, sometimes the scrutineers see it as black and white, but for the teams it's a bit of a grey area, and when taken to appeal the officials can be asked questions like "how flat is a flat barge board", etc.

It'll be very interesting to see what happens with the Formula Renault appeals. Has anything similar happened at this level before?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Boardman excluded from 2nd race	Craig	Touring Car Racing	21	28 Jun 2003 15:28
Piquet Jr Excluded from 1st Session	rlinter	National & International Single Seaters	23	7 Apr 2003 21:04
Watts To Win FRenault Title At Brands?	Jonny Apex	National & International Single Seaters	14	23 Aug 2002 23:12
Bell/Watts Exclusions Stand	Jonny Apex	National & International Single Seaters	6	5 Jul 2002 09:23
Robert Bell wins frenault winter series	Jonny Apex	National & International Single Seaters	11	20 Nov 2001 11:34