Fangio and Schumacher

Robert · 23 Jul 2002, 18:37 (Ref:340965)

Fangio Schumacher
Years In F1: 8 11

Formula One Races: 51 171

Wins: 24 (47.05%) 61 (35.6%)

2ND Place: 11 (21.15%) 30 (17.5%)

3RD Place: 1 (9%) 16 (9%) Tie

Poles: 28 (54.9%) 45 (26.3%)

Front Row: 48 (94.11%) 84 (49.1%)

Podiums: 36 (70.5%) 108 (63.1%)

Robert

Jordi · 23 Jul 2002, 18:50 (Ref:340977)

in pct Fangio wins... but the debate will be endless

Liz · 23 Jul 2002, 22:44 (Ref:341197)

Fangio also raced in several other series and in many different kinds of cars (e.g. Targa Florio, Mille Miglia) at the same time as he was racing in Formula One. TGF has not raced in any other series in any other kind of car than the extremely high tech remote control machine he currently drives. He also continued racing until he was 47 years old, winning his final championship at that age.

He was also remembered by everyone as a gentleman of impeccable honesty and was both respected and beloved by his teammates.

I doubt very much if anyone could say any of the above about TGF with a straight face.

f1manoz · 24 Jul 2002, 00:50 (Ref:341263)

The two of them are incomparable. Different cars, different tracks, different eras.

Statistics can be used to prove anything. 63% of people know that.

mac · 24 Jul 2002, 01:01 (Ref:341268)

You cannot compare two different eras. Each of them are greats in their own time - and that is all that matters.

laudaman · 24 Jul 2002, 09:28 (Ref:341419)

Also, 4 cars could get on the front row in Fangio's day whereas nowadays it is only 2.

RMR · 24 Jul 2002, 10:04 (Ref:341433)

There is not an answer to this. Its just opinions, which Jordi rightly points out "is endless". Different era, different cars.

RWC · 24 Jul 2002, 12:50 (Ref:341548)

Fangio tended to skip from great car to great car.Shuey draged ferrari up from the grave.Those stats ARE very impressive though,i hadn't seen those b4.
The only thing i guess we cant argue about is the 'gentleman' factor

Speed · 24 Jul 2002, 13:48 (Ref:341603)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
I doubt very much if anyone could say any of the above about TGF with a straight face.

EXCELLENT !!!
Deliberate, but instinctual !

Legend · 24 Jul 2002, 14:53 (Ref:341653)

Why Schu is not a good driver? Because his not as good as a person as Mother Theresa!

Jordi · 24 Jul 2002, 16:42 (Ref:341732)

Legend... you will notice there's a lot of people here that do NOT like the same driver as you...

I'm included in those people, but that's because I preferred Hill and Villeneuve

Liz · 24 Jul 2002, 16:59 (Ref:341746)

Mother Theresa sassed me once on the telephone. I'm not her biggest fan either.

Fangio also came back from a potentially lethal neck injury to race on to more championships. TGF came back from a broken leg only because his daughter tattled on him to his bosses when he'd lied about his fitness to return.

Rutle · 24 Jul 2002, 17:27 (Ref:341765)

Quote:

Originally posted by RWC
Shuey dragged ferrari up from the grave.

...and it was only then he started winning in one.

He's never been great in a not so good car ... like Rindt, Clark, Senna and especially Peterson.

Legend · 24 Jul 2002, 18:59 (Ref:341861)

Quote:

Originally posted by Rutle

Originally posted by RWC
Shuey dragged ferrari up from the grave.
(this one following is SCI_FI)
...and it was only then he started winning in one.

He's never been great in a not so good car ... like Rindt, Clark, Senna and especially Peterson.

This one makes me!!! crack

Jay · 24 Jul 2002, 19:08 (Ref:341869)

Let's not forget that Fangio raced in an era where balls were required just to get into the car. Shumi has already declared that any other form of motorsport is too dangerous as he might brake a nail.

Damon · 24 Jul 2002, 19:19 (Ref:341880)

Legend, I see we have another blind schu fan in the house, yippee

Quote:

Originally posted by Rutle
He's never been great in a not so good car ... like Rindt, Clark, Senna and especially Peterson.

Not to sure about the Senna link here. The lotus wasn't exactly the cream of the crop.

With the thread however... other comparisons are that Fangio did not have the top bods from his team backing out of the room and sprinkling pettles in his path. Fangio won, when drivers won championships on the track, not when pen's put to paper in the motor home.

Rutle · 25 Jul 2002, 11:42 (Ref:342340)

Quote:

Originally posted by Damon
Not to sure about the Senna link here. The lotus wasn't exactly the cream of the crop

My point exactly - but he still wrung a performance out of it as he did with the Toleman.

Legend · 25 Jul 2002, 13:54 (Ref:342454)

"Bible James II 18" But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

I prefer the one who shows his "faith" on the grand prix tracks by his "works", which is winning grand prixs and championships.

Amen

TimD · 25 Jul 2002, 14:26 (Ref:342484)

Oh dear. Now we're invoking the bible in this, are we?

It's a pity some people haven't read Exodus 20, vs 3-4.

RMR · 25 Jul 2002, 14:35 (Ref:342494)

Can anyone clarify things. Are people trying to establish the most successful F1 driver or the "best" driver.

**Peter Mallett** · 25 Jul 2002, 14:41 (Ref:342496)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
Fangio also raced in several other series and in many different kinds of cars (e.g. Targa Florio, Mille Miglia) at the same time as he was racing in Formula One. TGF has not raced in any other series in any other kind of car than the extremely high tech remote control machine he currently drives. He also continued racing until he was 47 years old, winning his final championship at that age.

Um, Liz, Mickey was pretty good in Sportscars and not too bad in the DTM. And er, he hasn't reached 35 yet so what would we do if he does go to 47. Granted these were before his graduation to F1.

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
He was also remembered by everyone as a gentleman of impeccable honesty and was both respected and beloved by his teammates.

Definitely and the general public felt the same.

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
I doubt very much if anyone could say any of the above about TGF with a straight face.

Well I wrote something with a straight face.

And I'm on record as decyring Mickey's misdemeaners even if a lot of peeps don't think they were.

In truth you can't compare the two for all the reasons that have been stated previously but you can benchmark and in my book whilst we are now witnessing a consummate professional at the top of his game, Fangio still has more charisma and support so of the two (for me) he wins this particular discussion.

Liz · 25 Jul 2002, 16:10 (Ref:342540)

Plus nobody really knows if Fangio "gave" his teammate a win at his home track. TGF can't "give" races without taking shameless credit for it and making it obvious that he could have "won" if he had wanted to.

And if we are throwing Bible verses around, what about the 10th Commandment? Something about not coveting things that belong to other people, isn't it? Like their race wins, maybe?

Jordi · 25 Jul 2002, 17:41 (Ref:342625)

Peter, when did Schumacher race in the DTM?

**Peter Mallett** · 25 Jul 2002, 18:11 (Ref:342652)

I'll stand corrected but didn't he do something in '90/91?

TimD · 25 Jul 2002, 18:22 (Ref:342660)

Jordi, Michael Schumacher ran the #20 Mercedes Benz 190E-16 in 1991, under Debis colours. It wasn't a full season campaign, rather he raced when his Mercedes Junior Team Sportscar commitments allowed.

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