Hmmm a 1:08 at QLD Raceway? No way

[RaceTime]

Be interesting to see how they explain away the 1:08 recorded at Queensland Raceway and how they 'fixed it'

(I know the reason how it happened - Winton is particularly susceptible to that problem)

[Seton_5]

It was just an error.

[RaceTime]

The Dorian system cannot just inject that type of error.

The time of 1:08, because it is around 4 secs under the times being recorded at that particular time, relates to a very specific problem the Dorian system suffers from - electrical/electronic noise...

[Crash Test]

Indeed... we were watching it on the monitor- some 24 cars went under the lap record! After the rain, the track temperature went down by 8 degrees, bu that doesn't explain 4sec a lap!

[RaceTime]

I'll email you the problem and what causes it

[Crash Test]

BTW- Are the results out as yet? There was nothing when I left late lat night, as every man and their dog had a protest or hearing to attend.... how slow was Murph's last lap time? How many laps did Tony Quinn do? How many things does BJR have a wish to complain about? KMart, DJR, Ellery and a few others were all lined up. Apparently Ellery got dudded for not lining up directly behind the car in front after a safety car!

[Crash Test]

BTW again- the sports sedan race was an absolute classic on Sunday morning- 1:08's- you betya!

[RaceTime]

Results were puclished within about 20 minutes BUT they were amended just after 6pm when they added 30 secs to Murphys time - *That's* what I am trying to find out about - no reasongiven.

Maybe it's a kind of reverse logic - he didn't stay off the track long enough when Richards punted him off so they decided to penalise him further! But I guess one rule for some, another for others.

[Crash Test]

Hrmmm, well there you go... at about 7:30 they were still telling teams and drivers to go and have a coffee, as there was still a line up at the checkout. I'd say wait til Bathurst for a final confirmation of the results

[RaceTime]

First results issued at 16:54 and apologies - I thought it was about 6pm the revised were issued - but they are timed at 20:21. Interestingly they are still labelled Issue 1 so don't know if they stuffed up and published to the web but didn't publish to the printer at the track or if they just haven't upped the issue number...

But still want to know why he got the penalty..

[Crash Test]

Maybe all those years of being a Kiwi caught up with him?

[RaceTime]

Dunno - but it's the equivalent of a drive-though - but why add it after the race seeing as how long his last stint was??

[spook]

So share with all of us - what's this Dorian problem about - never seen it before ?

[RaceTime]

Basically if the llops in the ground see too much noise ie they become saturated with signals, the clock can miss a rollover putting the time on that group of 4 loops approx 4 secs out of sync (forgotten what the exact amount is but its around 4.183 seconds or very close to that).

The same problem happened recently at Barbagallo when the safety car parked itsef on the time line at pit exit - everyone went into a mad panic despite the problem being kown about now for about 5 years!

It the person running the system is competent it is easily fixed; if they aren't - well anything can and does happen.

It's probably the one major down side to the system which is usually very reliable (just now technologically out of date..)

[TMS]

lol, I remember hearing that over the PA at the track. The track was still half wet.

[spook]

Thanks RT - but how is it fixed - by "adjusting" the time sheet - or is there some sort of alarm that tells the timekeepers when it is about to happen. What causes this "noise" overload - TV signals?, someones pacemaker? I noticed on Thursday that CH10 ran their sound cables very close to the start line loops to get to the centre of the circuit.

[RaceTime]

DATA-1 runs at a relatively low frequency and isn't (usually) affected by TV/RF type signals (mains power, however, is a completely different story). Literally the noise floods the antenna system and this is what affects the clocks.

The software *should* be able to pick it up - ours can - don't believe Natsofts does - but I could be wrong.

How is it fixed? Usually when this happens, because of the way DATA-1 is designed (in batches of 4 loops) a group of 4 loops will go 'ouit of synch' and a car will usually generate a time on more then one loop - quite often on a 'bad loop' and a good loop - so you see two times differeing by approx 4 secs. But this isn't always the case. SO sometimes you have a genuine/accurate time to use, others you don't.

The other way to help overcome this problem is by use of an alternate timing pulse. Most Natsoft users use that extremely accurate push-button system - sorry this is something I will never use! We use a laser positioned at the start line and use that for back up timing - consistent and 100% more accurate than a hand operated push button (next time you go to a sprint meeting, compare 'Official' times with those generated by say a PI in car system and see how far out the hand really is...).

(BTW - you realise I will now be in deep **** for revealing this, don't you?? <g>)

[spook]

The truth is out there - now!

[spook]

But at the 500 didn't AVESCO use their own timing system, and not the QR system? Surely AVESCO would only have "the best".

[Crash Test]

Same system, and same core of people, just some AVESCO folk come along, and there seems to be a lot more computers and wires and things

[spook]

So the category managers are permitted to run the timing system. no wonder there have been problems.

RT - but to the non-technical like me - how does the "power system" sudenly create noise, did someone use the toilet hand dryer in race control or something? Is it related to the rain shower? The PA system was cutting in and out early on Sunday around the back of the circuit where we were.

[RaceTime]

Crash - actually different hardware - AVESCO use the same cables in ground, but have their own hardware.

But all of this is no good if three is interefence involved.

spook - best way I can describe it - the DATA-1 system is basically a radio receiver - similar to a two way radio. Two ways quite often receive interefence - other radios, cars, sun spots that sort of thing. DATA-1 also gets 'noise' from all over.

Race tracks are very electrically active - next time you go have a look at the number of antennas and people with radios, phones etc - not a very good environment at all for radio equipment.

The comment about mains power - it operates at 50 Hertz or 50 cycles per second - you can often hear this in a stero or HiFi system as a mains hum - similarly with DATA-1 - get mains cables too close to the antenna in the track and Hummmmmmm <g>

The problem is that there are only about 4 timekeepers around Australia that really know anything about it - how to set it up properly, fault finding - that sort of thing. The others say they know but, in all honesty, haven't got a clue - they wing it and hope to hell nothing goes majorly wrong with it (as happened during Bathurst Qualifying 2 years ago; Barbagallo V8's this year, Sandown last state race meeting...)

Hope this helps clear the mud a bit more for you.

[Crash Test]

Don't start me on radio interference....
With all of the radio stuff I was kitted out in, we were getting a fair bit of interference from some certain teams... which proved interesting when they'd make some obscene comment that would go straight into the commentator's upstairs ear holes...

[RaceTime]

hehe heard a few of them on TV - including Skaifes clanger (again!!!)

[Crash Test]

A good one was during a safety car, Trev asked upstairs whether or not a certain team would be pitting. Right at that stage we ot a crossed line with said team... "WE'RE ****ING NOT PITTING NOW!"

"...errrr, just had a call from the pits, they won't be pitting, although they said it in a few less words..."

It was actually much worse this year than in years past. Also, the number of complaints from certain teams evesdropping on other teams and constantly changing their frequencies was amusing...