Why all the disappointment about Juan Montoya?

Yoong Montoya · 20 Oct 2002, 19:04 (Ref:408771)

He came 3rd in the WDC with 50 points, 8 points ahead of Ralf Schumacher. Surely he couldn't have done significantly better than that? Okay, he could have won 1 or 2 races this year if it hadn't been for bad luck and silly mistakes, but **** happens.

Just because Montoya didn't live up to the bull**** hype surrounding him, doesn't mean that he isn't WDC material.

A driver can't win, unless he has a car capable of doing so. Montoya didn't have one this year. Ralf won in Malaysia, but that was a fluke.

Don't give up hope on Montoya. He is a champion of the future in my opinion.

Hopefully he and Michael will have a close battle for WDC in the future that goes to the last round, and in appalling conditions at Suzuka, Montoya does a Hill and beats Michael in the wet and wins the title. Could this ever happen? Well, dreams sometimes come true, so you never know. Nothing against Michael, but I want to see him involved in another close WDC battle again.

ASCII Man · 20 Oct 2002, 19:07 (Ref:408772)

And another controversial move?
Schumachers career is full of it...

garagegirl · 20 Oct 2002, 19:19 (Ref:408785)

i cant honestly say im a big montoya fan, in fact im the exact opposite. no particular reason, but i am a big fan of button, which might explain a few things. but although i like him not, i also have ALOT of respect for the guy. he's quick to say the least and very talented, as well as (according to some marshalls) a very nice guy. on top of that i think he's the only one who's got guts to go with his talent, and the only one erm... well... brave enough basically to take on shuey.

garagegirl · 20 Oct 2002, 19:21 (Ref:408788)

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya

Don't give up hope on Montoya. He is a champion of the future in my opinion.

i agree totally, its just a shame he may have to wait for shuey to retire. fingers crossed for next year

Mr V · 20 Oct 2002, 19:38 (Ref:408797)

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya

A driver can't win, unless he has a car capable of doing so. Montoya didn't have one this year. Ralf won in Malaysia, but that was a fluke.

Agreed, had the first corner collision not happened then i think Michael would have taken another win, with Juan Pablo in second.

Of course i want to see him win, but the FW24 hasn't been the car to do it (apart from Rafes lucky win of course) so all in all, i'm pleased with Juan Pablo's season, nobody was going to get 1st and 2nd in the WDC, so 3rd is the best (other) place to be. 7 poles and a few fastest laps in his second season (added to his 3 poles and 4 fastest laps in his first season) isn't doing too badly.

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya

Don't give up hope on Montoya. He is a champion of the future in my opinion.

I won't.

R · 20 Oct 2002, 19:47 (Ref:408802)

The sad thing is that the Ferraris are so far ahead. Just think of the great battles we could see if the Williams and McLaren were closer to Ferrari. Montoya and Kimi are brilliant.

neilap · 20 Oct 2002, 19:50 (Ref:408807)

With the cars more closely matched JPM may surprise quite a few people. I have no doubt he will be champ. Even if he has to do it in another car. Williams does not seem to be very inited with BMW (maybe its just the media). If JPM was in a Ferrari (as has been said by a million people) MS would have the fight of his life in his hands. JPM is still learning about F1. MS is fully established so is RS. I think next year he will take the next step to be considered by all to be one of the greats, if the car delivers.

Kex · 20 Oct 2002, 20:22 (Ref:408826)

I suppose if Villeneuve can win the World Championship, Montoya can win the World Championship.

ASCII Man · 20 Oct 2002, 20:44 (Ref:408847)

Sure, but he won't do it in style like JV...

Jordi · 20 Oct 2002, 22:29 (Ref:408898)

Well, I think Jacques is better than Juan Pablo... but surely JPM is championship material...

Tristan · 21 Oct 2002, 00:22 (Ref:408946)

"Why all the disappointment about Juan Montoya?"

Because this year he never looked anything like WDC material. As much as I admire the guy, I expected him to blow Ralf away this season. He didn't. Simple.

Champ69 · 21 Oct 2002, 01:30 (Ref:408963)

Once he calms down in the car he will do well.

Valve Bounce · 21 Oct 2002, 02:01 (Ref:408973)

Maybe Ralf is better than we give him credit for?

Lee Janotta · 21 Oct 2002, 02:14 (Ref:408982)

Uhmm... No. Ralf is a huge arse who only turns on the speed when his teammate is trying to get past.

Juan overdrove the car trying to catch the Ferraris this year, and ended up looking pretty sad. The technical failures sure don't help... They cost him at least three sure wins last year.

Juan was trying to induce oversteer in an FW24 that un dersteers to the point where it requires a very gentle touch to get decent performance from it. That's what Ralf has... Juan ended up overdriving the car to the point where he was destroying the undertray over curbs, and his rear tires were coming apart in chunks.

If he's got a more agile and reliable car in the FW25, something that handles more like the McLaren, he'll demolish Ralf once and for all.

Just like Fisi, Damon and Jensen already did!

Are there any good young German/Austrian/Swiss drivers Williams could replace him with and still keep BMW happy? I'd love to see Jacques back in that seat, but BMW will want a German-speaking driver.

Gt_R · 21 Oct 2002, 02:33 (Ref:408985)

Why the disapppointment?? We were brought to believe that JPM would be bringing the fight to MS this year.We were brought to believe that he would beat MS no sweat.. I've expected..but nothing is delivered..that's the disappointment.

But no, it doesn't take away my belief that JPM has what it takes to be WDC. I'm sure he would one day get the honour.

But this season has revealed something, that up till now, while no doubting JPM is a good racer, he has yet to nurture into the "great" many thought he is already. Of course, he may be just as "great" in the future. But currently, he still have quite a bit to learn in the F1 trade. We know he has much speed in him...but he similarly have rough edges and some minor weakness in him which hinders his performance..

But i'm sure he'd mature in F1, and that is when he will reach his peak.

And just a final note. It's kind of tiring to see his fans making a big "whoo-haa" about what he achieved this season. I do find his string of poles and 3rd in WDC as impressive...but surely its not THAT impressive from a man of JPM's supposed potential.

Yeah..the Williams is lacking to Ferrari '02...so no win is acceptable. But both Senna and MS put in far more impressive results in similar situations. (Now u know how high in regards i would want to hold JPM to) As much as he suffered from "bad luck", so had his team mate and immediate rivals.

He aint bad at all...not a bit. But he aint that great yet now either.

f1manoz · 21 Oct 2002, 03:19 (Ref:408996)

I think too many people are forgetting that this is only his second season and as far as I'm concerned he's done bloody well.

Rookie season wins a race with 3(?) other podiums.

Second season in a vastly outpaced car still managed to finish 3rd overall in the table, beating his much more experienced team-mate, and a McLaren driver with 8-9 years of experience, despite not winning a race.. Couldn't that show a touch of consistency, despite all his mechanical woes?!?!

The only disappointment I take from his season is that he didn't manage a race win, but frankly only two other drivers did in non-Ferrari cars, and both of them were fluke victories anyway (well, Ralf's certainly was, DC was hard earned).

JohnSSC · 21 Oct 2002, 03:59 (Ref:409010)

A lot of this territory was covered in another thread, but suffice it to say that posters criticizing JPM's performance this season forget one thing: neither he, nor anyone else, had the car to do it. Interesting though in this thread that he has been criticized for "trying too hard" and not trying hard enough - all at the same time!

When I get to run my own F1 team I am going to nip right out and get me some drivers who only try hard some of the time, or never try too hard, just so they can avoid the tag of: "Tries hard all the time." Wouldn't want a bunch of drivers out there trying hard! I hope Schumi Lite is still available when I form my team as he fits that bill rather precisely.

z2252314 · 21 Oct 2002, 05:23 (Ref:409021)

In a good car he's better than his teammate. In a car slightly less than perfect he begins to struggle and Ralf has an edge. The difference between the greats and Juan is that drivers like Senna and Schumi could also win in inferior cars while Juan cant. The fact is, Ralf has brought home 4 wins compared to Juan's 1. Everyone has their favourites, but all must agree that Ralf and Juan where pretty even all throughout the year. Juan has to prove that he can beat Ralf before he begins to think about MS.

DNQ · 21 Oct 2002, 09:38 (Ref:409082)

Quote:

Originally posted by Tristan
As much as I admire the guy, I expected him to blow Ralf away this season. He didn't. Simple.

Well he did take seven pole positions to zero...
But even myself, a Montoya fan won't lie and pretend he was the clear #1, as statistics have shown Ralf was actually quicker in qualifying overall. I think JPM is better than Ralf though, if not clearly in true speed, then certainly in balls.

Tristan · 21 Oct 2002, 16:28 (Ref:409381)

I agree. Doesn't stop me being dissapointed with is inconsistency all year. TGF made them all look silly, including his "big rival".

zootv · 21 Oct 2002, 17:30 (Ref:409426)

JPM can certainly be a world champion if he gets the right package and if there's no Ferrari dominance like this year. Why not pair him with JV? That would be the ultimate team...

Tristan · 21 Oct 2002, 19:52 (Ref:409565)

Because there's this illusion that surrounds Villeneuve that he's somehow an "above average" driver with a semblence of a personality.

I LIKE JV and I think he's a very good driver, but never again will he get a top drive (unless Honda whack some serious development money under BAR) and nor does he deserve one. JPM paired with a Heidfeld, perhaps.

Actually, I've stopped typing for a bit and perhaps JV/JPM WOULD be a nice combo. Not going to happen, but it might work. But then in theory a Ralf JPM partnership is perfect. The theory doesn't work in practise, clearly.

race aficionado · 21 Oct 2002, 20:16 (Ref:409593)

Disappointment?
Yes, . . . but not in Juan.

Those Red cars were just too superior and dominating.

Also Juan was not perfect but neither was I, so who am I to point fingers . . . .

I'm more disappointed on the current situation in F 1 but that's another story and many other threads are dwelling on that one.

Juan is so good and promising, that we still find ourselves talking about him. Have a nice wedding Juan, rest it out, you deserve it and come back next year as you always do, with passion and gusto.

Tristan · 21 Oct 2002, 20:26 (Ref:409604)

But he DIDN'T blow Ralf away. He ISN'T the clear number one driver. He DIDN'T put in anywhere near enough good, solid performances. His season was riddled with petty mistakes and nondescript drives. AND I'M A FAN OF THE GUY!!

neilap · 21 Oct 2002, 20:36 (Ref:409609)

When Michelin engineers move to Williams as a permanent part of the team and vice versa then maybe there can be an argument about JPM's performance. He is the only one that put up a fight all year against MS, as futile as it may have been. I know peoples memories are not as bad as I get from these posts. JPM outclassed RS by far this year. If it was not for DNFs it would not even be close. At least his DNF's were from trying not from folding and letting people by. Jesus this is getting old.

People, its the car. MS could not have won in the Williams either, no one could have! It is not MS it is the equipment that he has. That is the biggest difference between him and JPM. I find it incredible that people don't see this. No one said RS was slow, he just has no balls. Its that simple. With no one to fight he is just as fast as JPM. Most of the drivers on the grid can be as fast as MS with the right equipment and open space. The difference is what happens when a fight is at hand. That is what defines a racing driver not how fast he can lap with no one around. Drivers need to have the instinct and the will to take the fight to anyone on the grid. The Williams was the second best car so they came in second. JPM is not Jesus Christ he cant turn water into wine. Lets keep it real. JPM was more than RS's equal this year even the media sees it like that.

When he wins the WDC there will still be bone heads saying he is not that good and if the earth was not round he would not have won. As for mistakes, Even MS made some silly ones in his near perfect car. There is no excuse for that.

Breathe... in and out... ok, I am fine now. That felt good!!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Is Juan Montoya human?	RubberD	Formula One	61	9 Mar 2003 15:33
[Photos/Art] Juan Pablo Montoya	Andrew Kitson	Armchair Enthusiast	12	18 Jul 2002 17:46
Juan Montoya to F1...Will he deliver?	JeremySmith	Formula One	23	19 Sep 2000 17:04